Speaker Tags Used in Events

Men singing

2714 B1 and 2

Women singing

Man singing

2715 A1 and 2

Men singing

Men singing

2715 B1 and 2

Man singing with instruments

Man and woman singing with instruments

Man and woman singing with instruments

2716 A1 and 2

Women singing

Alright.

Women singing

2716 B1

Alright. Let's play.

Women singing

2717 A1, 2 and 3

Man singing with instruments

Man singing with instruments

Man singing with instruments

2717 B1 and 2

Alright.

Man singing

Man singing

2718 A1 and 2

Alright.

Woman singing with ukulele

[inaudible] Now go.

Woman singing

2718 B1, 2 and 3

Woman singing

Alright sing!

Children singing and clapping

Go ahead. Sing it again.

Children singing and clapping

2720 A1 and 2

Men singing

3135 A

My name is Zora Neal Hurston. I was born in Eatonville, FLorida. I'm 35 years old. This song that I'm going to sing is a railroad song that I found on a railroad gang near Miami and was song to me by Max Ford.

How long ago was that?

That was in 1930.

How did you happen to be going around getting songs?

I was collecting folk material for Columbia University as part of the Barnard College, Columbia University.

What is the song called?

They call it "Gonna See my Long-haired Babe" and it's a railroad spiking song and the rhythm is kept with a spike and a hammer.

Will you try to emphasize, give me the approximate rhythm of the hammer with the stick by hitting it against that?

Yes, sir.

ZNH sings 'Gonna See My Long-Haired Babe'

Let them hammers ring, boy.

I see you, you seem to be hitting down twice for a hammer. Why is that?

Uh, the men face each other with hammers and they call on each other; they're breasted, they stand breast to breast and one comes down and the other one comes down.

Immediately afterwards?

Yes, one comes down [strike, strike]

I see [strike, strike] and how long is that between the double strikes?

The minute that one goes down, the other is on the upstroke and comes right down behind it.

And who does the singing?

They sing in line. It's a man who doesn't work at all. And he walks up and down and gives the rhythm for the people to work.

Is this for a whole crew of men?

A whole crew of men singing this one time and the railroad has to pay the singing liner or else the men won't work.

What I'm asking you is if you hear that you only hear the one man singing on a whole section of track.

Not all the time, because different ones have verses they want to put in themselves and so they jump in and after they start the song but the singing liner always starts it.

Well now look, uh, the only thing is that you were giving a long piece of singing without the rhythm of the hammer and I want to know approximately how often that comes.

Well, they often do that and then after that they [distortion] get in there but they [distortion]

3135 B1 and 2

[inaudible]

Uh, this song I got in Callahan, Florida, which is a railroad center in the northern part of Florida.

Inaudible.

I got this in 1935. I don't remember the man's name who sung it to me but I got it at Callahan. It's a railroad camp.

What kind of song is it?

This is not exactly a song. It's a chant for the men lining. You know a railroad rail weighs 900 pounds and the men have to take these lining bars and get it in shape to spike it down. And while they're doing that why they have a chant that, uh, and also some songs that they be used to, the rhythm to work it into place and then the boss hollers 'Bring 'em a hammer gang' and they start to spike it down. And this is a chant for lining the rail.

ZNH chants 'Let's Shake It'

I'd like you to do that again. But this time, when they have . . . What do they call the irons they use?

They call it a lining bar.

Alright. The lining bar. When they work but don't you hear the clink of it?

It's a 'hah'! Now you don't hear the lining bar because it's under the rail and they shove the rail with it.

They hit against it?

No, it's under it. You see, it's just like on this. It's a crow bar.

Because over in Mississippi, they showed me by hitting the thing. They said that the way that they did it was by several men taking a short hit.

Well, I've seen them put it between their legs this way and put it back and they get this, this splange under the rail, and then they 'heh, heh'. You know, like that.

Well, now what do they do? Are they pulling it, pulling it --

Pulling it backwards, they're moving it backwards.

In other words, they have it underneath and they're using the lever to go forward.

That's right. Yes.

Alright.

And all the men, you know because it's always straining and they 'heh'.

About how many are there on a bar?

Oh, some time it's about 7 or 8 on at one time.

Hmhm. Well, I suppose you try it and you sing it over again.

Alright

Or chant it.

ZNH chants 'Let's Shake It'

I got 'That Old Black Gal' is a spiking song that I got down there in Miami and was song by Max Ford the singing liner on this construction crew.

What's it used for?

Used for spiking down the rails.

ZNH chants 'That Old Black Gal'

3136 A

This song they called 'Shove it Over' and it's the lining rhythm pretty generally distributed all over Florida. It was sung to me by Charlie Jones on a railroad construction camp in Lakeland, Florida.

About how long ago?

Uh, I gathered that in '33, 1933.

ZNH sings 'Shove it over'

This is again for lining?

This is a lining rhythm.

Now where is the movement?

When they say Shacka-lacka-lacka like they are getting ready to pull back and when they say 'heh' they shove the rail over.

In other words, this song gives them quite a lot of rest in between.

Right a lot of rest in between.

And a harder shove?

And a harder shove at the end. And they say 'heh', they all go.

It seems to have had a different effect from the other lining one you gave, I mean that one about Mobile.

Yes, but someone was short and someone only just come to the mood of the liner. And the men work whatever song he sung, they work that rhythm.

Uh, now when the men are lining, they put the rail down, and then of course the captain, he's crouched straddle of it and uh, looks down it so he can tell when it's lined up in exact line with the others. And if they carry it, well he'll say shove it over and if they carry it too far, he'll say send it back and when they get it exactly in line, he'll tell em 'join it ahead' but then they corrupted that to 'join ahead' and all of them say 'join ahead' for 'join it ahead'. And, uh, so, uh, this song is about a lining and the rhythm goes with, they put this lining bar, this long steel bar, crow bar between their legs so they have greater purchase and pull back on it.

Well, wait a minute. They pull back . . . and how are they facing in relation to the rail.

Their back is to the rail.

In other words, they're pulling up on the bar.

They're pulling up on the bar. They don't have to look at the rail because that's the captain's job to see when it's right.

Well, what do they do? Do they, how do they get it under the bar, how do they get it under the bar, the rail?

They just push the flange of this lining bar under the rail and then pull back on it.

Do they have to look back at it or do they just feel it?

Oh, they can just feel it. Sometimes they look back, you know, but most of them, they just can feel it and they send it back on there.

Well, uh, you were saying, you were explaining that there's different rhythms that they have. Are there any particular times when a faster on or a slower one would be used?

Well, it's different; it's not any particular time except just the feeling of the singing liner. Whatever song he starts. If it's a fast rhythm they work fast; if its's a slow one, well they work, you know, a little slower but they get just as much work done, it seems, somehow or another.

3136 B

ZNH singing low.

Alright.

Alright, this song I'm going to sing is a lining rhythm and I'm going to call it Mule on the Mount though you can start with any verse you want and give it a name and it's the most widely distributed work song in the United States and it has innumerable verses and whatnot about everything under the sun and it's a lining rhythm though they sometimes sing it just [cut off].

In the jook houses and doing any kind of work at all, chopping wood and in the lumber camps and everywhere you find this song. No where you can't find parts of this song, 'Mule on the Mount'.

Well, is it known, is it a consistent song as you hear it all over?

The tune is consistent but the verses, you know how things, in every locality you can find some new verses, everywhere.

I mean does it have the same choral verses? Does it have 'Mule on the Mount' wherever you hear it?

Well, there's some place that I haven't heard that same verse 'Mule on the Mount' but there's no place that I don't hear some of the same verses.

Where did you learn it this particular way?

Well, I heard the first verses, I got it in my native village of Eatonville, Florida from George Thomas.

And this is one version you're going to sing?

I'm going to sing, oh I guess, all the tune is the same. I'm going to sing verses from a whole lots of places.

Alright.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Mule on the Mount'

When you hear that sung, or nearly sung, about how many verses does a man know? He doesn't know as many as you do.

Yes, sometimes they sing 30 and 40 verses.

Is one of these continuous?

It's one of these things that's grown by incremental repetition until perhaps it's the longest song in America.

[inaudible]

Zora Neale Hurston laughs [distortion]

3137 A1 and 2

What's your name, please?

Beatrice Lange.

Where do you come from?

I came from South Georgia.

Where? What part of South Georgia?

Woodbine.

And how old are you?

35

And what are you going to tell us or?

Well, I'm going to tell some folk stories that my brother-in-law told me.

How long ago?

About a year ago.

A short, a short while back.

Well, it happened longer than that but he told me about a year ago.

I mean, how did it, it happened long ago . . . what do you mean by that?

I mean that the story happened longer than that.

Well, how did it go? I mean how did it --

Well, this old negro of his told him about it. The negro belonged to his father.

Uh-huh

Who had a rice plantation.

The negro told it to him when? I mean did he ever tell you that?

About six months to a year ago.

I mean the negro had just told him the story?

Yes, while he was working with him.

I see. And you don't have any name for it? Is that right?

Well, uh, it's a storm story, a hurricane story.

Just, okay, [laughing] go ahead .

I have several stories though. This is just one.

Well, let's start off with just one. That's the easiest way.

Alright, sir.

Alright. Well, can you tell it or are you going to tell it or read it?

Well I can kind of glance at it.

Alright. Go ahead.

Uh, this story happened during the fall of 1898 upon a small island off of the coast of Georgia

Where the sea level was very low. Came a hurricane which covered the whole island in several feet of water and most of the natives had to swim around in their homes.

One particular instance which calls to mind is that of an old negrum owned by one of the early rice planters.

He tells: Yes sir, we were swimming around in that water trying to find a shallow place when we seen some of them pretty long neck bottles floating around. Look like them water in 'em.

So we drink some and before long we was glad to have some been come because it sure made us feel good. Sure wish I could have some of that stuff now. Boss, I believe that been shampoo.

Further on the flooded plantation, the boss paddled his canoe up to the loft of the barn.

There sat another of his n-- with a big stick in his hand as if he was going to strike something. Even that the hole in the side of the barn where the [inaudible] was stored had looked as if a board had been torn off. He glanced over in the corner and there'n a pile of dead coons which looked like a hundred or so.

As the boss approached, he said, 'By grade, Tom, what have you been doing here?' He replied in a dramatic voice, 'Boss, I's just been praying all the time, how's that good for the ole master to come take this water back where it belong so we's could get back to work. Boss, I've been a praying every chance that I'm got to liberation.' 'Well, from the looks of the coons you killed, you didn't have time to pray much, Tom'. 'Mass Donald, I wouldn't have killed 'em but they kept barring me from praying all the time.'

Another story I told of an old native of Georgia came to Florida in the nineties to seek adventure. This old cracker who really lived in the backwoods had a name of being the biggest liar in the country.

Now look, suppose you don't read it from there and you just tell me it as a story. Go ahead. You can do it.

Just let me glance at it.

Alright. Go ahead.

[Laughter]

Go ahead.

He said me and my son Israel, we went down to Floridy to pick oranges. Huh. They grow so big you can fill a water bucket full with four of 'em.

The alligators, they were so tame, and I bet we had about a hundred and fifty, every day we went down to the palmetto patch and whistled and they would come running under the palmetto patch at me and crawl up on my shoulders and talk to me.

Why down there we cut down the palmetto trees to make fence posts and they is the best you ever seen. They would last a hundred years. I know because I tried them twice.

3137 B1 and 2

Surely, but I have to give all that other data. My name is Zora Neale Hurston and I'm going to sing a gambling song that I collected at Boston Florida. Turpentine is still there. And the men are playing a game called Georgia Skin. That's the most favorite gambling scheme among the workers of the South. And they lose money on the drop of a card, the fall of a card. And there's a rhythm to the fall of the card and after they get set with the two principles and the other people are called pikers and anybody that wants a special card, he pick it out and they call that, uh, picking one in the rough.

I think it's better if you explain just how the cards, which way the cards get out or how people are standing there before you go on.

Well, you see, they take a deck of cards and they shuffle it real good and watch the man to be sure he don't steal nothing. That is, that he don't set a cub. There are four cards of every kind in the deck. And when the card like the card you have selected falls, you lose. Sometimes if you don't watch the dealer he'll put three cards just like his own down at the bottom of the deck so that everybody falls before he does and then he wins all the money.

Well, what does he do? Is the dealer holding the deck of cards?

And he puts it on the table. They don't allow him to hold it because they're afraid he'll steal.

Alright.

So they, he puts it on the table and he turns over a card.

He just turns over . . .

Card by card and if the card is just like yours, when it falls, you lose. And, uh, so they holler when he gets all set, when the principles has got their cards and the pikers has got theirs and then the man will say he wants them to put the bets down and he'll say 'Put the money on the wood, and make the bet go good and then again, put it insight and save a fight' and so they all get the bets down and then he start and they'll holler, 'Let the deal go down, boys, let the deal go down'. And someone will start singing.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Let the Deal Go Down'

3138 A1 and 2

Uncle Bud is not a work song. It's a sort of social song for amusement and it's so widely distributed, it's growing all the time by incremental repetition, and it is known all over the South. No matter where you go you can find verses of Uncle Bud. And, uh, it's a favorite song. And the men get to working in every kind of work and they just yell down on Uncle Bud and nobody particular leads it. Everybody puts in his verse when he gets ready and Uncle Bud goes and goes and goes.

What, is it sung before the respectable ladies?

Never! It's one of those jook songs and the woman that they sing Uncle Bud in front of is a jook woman.

I thought you heard it from women?

Yes, I heard it from women [laughs].

Go ahead.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Uncle Bud'

Is there more to it?

I know I know some more verses but right off I don't recall.

I think that's a very valuable contribution to scientific recording.

Alright.

Oh the Buford Boat Done Come' is a song from the Geechee country in South Carolina but I heard it down in Florida from a Geechee that moved down in Florida. I forget her name right now.

Well, what type of song is it?

It's a little dance song with a Charleston rhythm.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Oh the Buford Boat Done Come'

How do they play it? Would you tell us very quickly?

Uh, it's just a dance song and then they dance a Charleston rhythm on it.

Was it, is it solo dancing?

No, group dancing.

Well, what kind of group is it?

Oh, just any group, any working group, and they'll clap their hands on it and sing.

3138 B1 and 2

I'm a sing a blues, 'Cuz Ever Been Down', and I got it at Palm Beach from a fellow named from Johnny Bardon.

Where did you get it

I got it in 1933.

Can you tell me, do you know how old a Blues it is? And how you happened to learn it?

Well, it's one of those things just go around all the jooks and what not like that and it goes by incremental repetition, a verse here and a verse there. I don't suppose anybody knows how old it is and when it started.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Cuz Ever Been Down'

I heard 'Halimuhfack' down on the East Coast.

Who did you hear it from and when?

I don't remember. I was in a big crowd and I learned it in the evening during the crowd. And I'm just, don't can't exactly remember who I, who did teach it to me but I learned it from the crowd most exactly more from one.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Halimuhfack'

You said you learned it in a crowd. How do you learn most of your songs?

I learn them. I just get in the crowd with the people if they singing and I listen as best I can and I start to joining in with a phrase or two and then finally I get so I can sing a verse and then I keep on until I learn all the songs, all the verses, and then I sing them back to the people until they tell me that I can sing them just like them and then I take part and I try it out on different people who already know the song until they are quite satisfied that I know it and then I carry it in my memory.

Well how about those that you have in your books and publish in the journals?

Well, that's the same way I got them. I learn the song myself and then I can take it with me wherever I go because I -- [cut off]

3139 A1 and 2

This is a song, uh, called 'Tampa'. I've known it ever since I could remember so I don't know who taught it to me but I heard it sung in my native village when I was a child, not in front of the old folks, of course.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Tampa'

You say that was uh. . . when was that sung?

I've known it all my life. No, it was not confined to children. Everybody sung and danced on it. And you hear a Negro orchestra, a local orchestra, they often played it now, played the tune. They don't sing the words but the tune is one of their favorite dance tunes.

Alright.

This one. Some of them call it 'Po Boy' and some of them call it 'Po Gal' but it's a pretty well-distributed blues tune all over the South. The words are not rhymed. It's a typical Negro pattern. The same line repeated three times with a sort of flip line on the end and the change is in the tune rather than the words for the most part.

Where did you pick up the way you sing it?

I'm - no, not all my life but I kept learning verses as I've gone around.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Po Boy'

3139 B1 and 2

Just play it for me in ballad.

Mama Don't Want No Peas No Rice' is a song from Nassau in the Bahama islands. They are great song makers and their tunes are decidedly more African than the ones made by the negroes in America. They make songs so rapidly they say 'Anything you do we put you in sing'. And in a few hours they have a song about it. Mama don't want no peas no rice is about a woman who wanted to stay drunk all the time and her husband is really complaining about it. He's explaining to the neighbors what's the matter with his wife and why they don't get along better.

Zora Neale Hurston sings 'Mama Don't Want No Peas No Rice'

3140a 1 and 2

Evelyn Werner, 32.

Dr. Corse would you please explain why we asked to have this record made?

This record was made for the purpose of recording the annunciation of an educated Southern white voice. And the story was one which was recorded by the Federal Writers as part of their work for the American guide series volume that's Florida.

Educated white woman.

Dr. Corse will you please introduce the speaker?

This is Mrs. Rolla Southworth, State Director of the Professional Service Projects of the WPA in Florida who will give us her opinion of the recording program of the folk songs in Florida.

Rolla Southworth: Well, Dr. Corse it would really seem that we have finally grown up as a nation when we can spend the day recording such folklore as we have heard today. And this is only the beginning and in only one city. Think of the endless material alone throughout Florida. Now although we are in the deep South, our state, with Mr. Call, has a very cosmopolitan group. As a matter of fact, the flags of five nations have flown over Florida. Isn't that a fact? And what a wealth of material that will indicate. Personally, my greatest interest is in the Negro Folklore and how justly proud we all are of Zora Hurston whose fine literary ability and wealth of experience has made our recordings possible today.

Thank you, Ms. Southworth.

3140 B1 and 2

My name is H. W. Stuckey. I'm 43 years old. I'm a WPA instructor for the blind.

And, uh, you are also a preacher, aren't you, sir? What congregation?

A missionary Baptist

Now, uh, this isn't part of your usual, as a missionary Baptist, does your church approve of singing?

No sir, no sir, they do not.

You're going to help us out with these, however?

Yes sir, in order to preserve these songs of my childhood days on a farm in South Carolina.

H. W. Stuckey sings

Let me interrupt you here. Now that, that, what would you call that?

It's a farm song, made up between the boys plowing on two or more plantations; one would holler 'Hallo' and the other would answer with a second 'Hallo'. That would be a signal for knocking off time for noon, for dinner.

Suppose you give the effect of actually being out on the farm?

H. W. Stuckey sings

About the fish vendor?

No, no there's another one without words.

H. W. Stuckey sings

Where would the two of them be?

Well, it'd be in the afternoon and they usually had one big plantation a well where the boys from the different fields would water their stock. And they would be unhooking from the plowers, the planters, and distributers, and going to water their mules and put them in the lot for the night when they start these hollers.

Would they be near each other? Or? Or?

Possibly sometimes a quarter mile or a half a mile away

Would you do it again? Was it the same effect between a quarter mile [inaudible] do a quarter mile.

H. W. Stuckey sings

31,41, A1 and 2

3141 A1 and 2

Shall I make an explanation of this? Yes sir.

during my early childhood days in Lee County, SC, my brother-in-law used to carry me about with him at night to these old fashioned dances and he called sets. They would also send for him for 10 or 15 miles around to come and call sets. And one of the songs that I remember well is like this.

H. W. Stuckey sings

Are there more verses to that?

No that's all I remember.

H. W. Stuckey sings

Now, Those last directions, were they taught, is that what he called out for them to do?

Well, old fashioned slow dancing is all I knew, they called it.

There was an old gentleman when I was a little boy in Sumter, South Carolina, who used to go around the streets selling fish. And this was the song that he would sing in the morning as he came down Manning Avenue where I lived and other streets throughout the city and could be heard for quite a distance, several blocks, singing.

H. W. Stuckey sings

Is that you as a kid? You learned it as a boy?

Yes, sir, I wrote, 9 or 10 years old.

H. W. Stuckey sings

3141 B1, 2, and 3

During my early boyhood days I had to nurse my sister's children. I wasn't, being my sight being affected I would not work on the farm and they made me nurse the children. These are some of the songs I liked to sing with the babies in my arms in the, under the tree shade or sometimes on the porch.

H. W. Stuckey sings

Irene Jackson

How old are you?

I'll be 40 my next birthday.

And where were you brought up?

In South Jacksonville, FL.

And what is it, tell us about what you are going to sing?

It's just a play we used to have when we were children and we would be playing church and then rather than sing church songs, we'd make up our songs and we called it our 'play church'.

When you were small did you play it with a guitar.

No, I was just playing with it since then.

You're playing it with a guitar since then. Why are you singing it with a guitar? Can you sing it without?

Yes, I could.

Well, would you try it without?

Yes.

Try it without.

[Bang] Oh my god.

That's alright. Don't worry about it. Go ahead.

Irene Jackson sings

And that's one you used to, you used to play games to that?

Explain about that.

Well, we would be having service and it was time for our preacher to preach though. He couldn't preach out the bible so we'd just take a word and add on and go to preaching. We'd be out in the yard.

Well, where was this? Where would you be? You wouldn't be doing it in the church.

No, we'd be out in the yard.

Just playing.

Clean.

Uh-huh

Irene Jackson sings

3142 A1, 2, and 3

The closing part of children's sermon that we used to have.

Irene Jackson chants

Alabama Singleton. I am 33-years-old.

And where were you brought up?

Savannah, GA

And, uh, what are you going to [inaudible]

A play that we used to play when we were children in Savannah.

And what was it called?

A ring play, just a ring play, a children's ring play

Alright. Sing.

Alabama Singleton sings

How did they play that?

A ring play, yes. When you say 'go all around the maypole' you'll join hands and be going around the ring and then you're showing your emotion and doing a little dance.

Well now, how do you, was there somebody [inaudible].

In the middle of the ring and the rest of the children would be patting their hands.

Could you pat the way they did? Take it over again and do the patting.

Yes.

Alright

Alright

Well, when you throw around the maypole you doesn't pat because your hands be joined then.

Oh, I see, well sing that and don't do your hands [Inaudible].

Alabama Singleton sings

Alabama Singleton sings

Alabama Singleton sings

3142, B1, 2, 3, and 4

[Inaudible] Just sitting down is alright. Well no, I want to get it close to you. I'm going to put it around here. Now, you just face in that direction. Talk right out. [Adjusts the microphone].

Maggie Fulton

And how old are you?

43

Tell us about this game. Where you learned it.

Well I learned it at my home in Leesville, South Carolina, a little childhood play. The play goes like this.

Maggie Fulton chants a game

Well, what, how did it go on? What else happened? What happened in the game?

Well, the children would act as if they were flying like the turkeys.

As if they were flying like a turkey? How was it played and how did they start off play

So they start off playing all over so if you're standing around and one would say 'Little girl, little girl have you been to the barn' and everyone said, yes Ma'am. And they answered 'Did you see my turkey?'' You say 'Yes Ma'am'. And you say 'How high did it fly' and you say 'So high' and then everybody stretched their arms up as if it was the wingspan.

Maggie Fulton sings a song

Maggie Fulton demonstrates a game

Harold B. Hazelhurst (HBH): I'm 30 yrs old, born in Georgia, reared in Florida, a water boy on the Marlboro camp, introduces a song.

And where were you brought up?

I was born in Georgia and reared in Florida.

Where did you learn this particular song?

I learned this song in middle Florida.

How did you learn it?

I was water boy on the hard road camp and the men during the day would sing these songs while they were working.

What is this one called?

Uh, it was called . . . it didn't have no particular name. They called it 'the Captain's Mule.'

I like that. Alright. Let's hear it.

Harold B. Hazelhurst sings 'The Captain's Mule'

3143 A1 and 2

Harold B. Hazelhurst sings John Henry

You say that was sung on the hard road camp?

Well, it was during the day when it was warm weather and the fellows would get kind of jaded and they'd sing that to get themselves aroused again and to get more interested in their work

What kind of work were they doing?

They were driving wheelers, driving mules on graded camp.

And these were the mule-skinners who were doing the singing? And what do they do? Sing the song while they were [inaudible]

Sing the song as the mules were going up and down the grade, loading.

And what is the name of this song?

The name of this song is 'John Henry'

Now how did you happen to learn it?

During the time that I was a water boy, between the age of 15 and 16 on a logging camp railroad. The men during the day would sing this while they were driving spikes.

While they were driving spikes. Could you mark off how the hammers would be coming down? Just where they'd be coming, hitting against this.

Well, they'd be double-driving.

[Banging] Alright. Can you, You can double-drive as long as you don't double-drive on the microphone. Alright. That's fine. Now, uh, and, This is 'John' -- you were telling me that this 'John Henry' wasn't sung the same way always? I mean, they wouldn't begin --

Well, no, they wouldn't begin at the same place all the time. Sometimes they'd begin when he was only six months old or perhaps they would begin by John Henry he had a little woman.

Well now tell me, uh, but did they always have the same tune to it?

Oh yes, they had the same tune all the time but different wording. You know. They would make up words all the time.

How do you want this?

Your name, age?

And where were you brought up?

I was born and raised in Jacksonville, studied voice in Chicago but never went to college.

Uh, huh, What do you mean 'voice'? Singing?

Yes.

Uh-huh, Alright. But you were brought up, most of your life, you spent right around here?

Well, as far as the life goes, yes but I'd go to Philadelphia for a while and come back and go to Chicago for a while and come back.

Alright, now you'll tell the story. Apparently the interest in the story is just to have you talk naturally and at the same time, we'll have the story. So, would you try --

Man: Go ahead.

Well, this story was told to me two years ago by one of the heirs to the Reed Plantation, Mulberry Grove, which is just south of Jacksonville. She said that right after the war when the slaves were freed she gave, she told Mariah the cook of her freedom and gave her the house at the end of the field to live in. So Mariah and all of her children set out and the youngest and the tiniest at the end of the line would fall down and get up, fall down again and get up. So Mrs. Pearson called to Mariah and said, 'You're losing one of your children, Mariah'. And Mariah turned back and said, 'You can have that one, Miss. Pearson, if you wants it.' That's all.

Can you state your name, your age, and your occupation?

Now you have one, you have that holler, that uh?

Yes sir.

What, would you explain something about how it was used and when or something like that?

Yes sir

Go ahead. Tell me something about it.

Yes, yes. Just a minute.

The one without the words.

OH, yes, yes. It was usually used in the afternoon mostly when the boys were knocking off work and going in to clean up or going out to call on their girls at night.

How would it sound, suppose someone had just haerd it, what would they hear?

Will you sing that, will you repeat the point [inaudible]

Alright.

Yes sir.

What do they do on the song part, I mean.

They'd be dancing.

They'd be dancing.

When they said do it the right, they'd be swinging their partners to the right and choosing, changing partners.

I see. The last part was giving directions. The rest of the time they were dancing.

Yes sir

What kind of dancing were they doing?

Go ahead.

You did? Well, woud you start in with?

[Laughter]

Now, what kind of motion would they do?

Oh, shucks. There'd be motion of their feets. [Laughter]

Well, there was a man in Savannah Georgia used to sell watermelons and he would come through every morning early and we'd hear him sing.

Maggie Fulton

Now you'll have to talk a little bit louder now on the next game.

Alright

Just a little barnyard play

Alright. How does it go?

Yes, sir.

What would they sing it for?

Like that.

Yeah, that would be good.

But, did they always have the same tune to it?

Oh yes, they had the same tune all the time but different wording, you know. They would make up words all the time. You see, the fellows from different railroads would come and work on this track with us and each fellow, perhaps he'd have a new verse that he'd add to the song.

Well, good. Well now, let's hear it the way that you remember it.

Well, sing it over again? Sing it now?

Start from the beginning. Alright.

Tell us about this.

Every morning about four o'clock, the foreman, the tent, sack rouster, would go around and knock on the tent with his axe handle. Says 'Alright boys, let's go back'. Says 'Let's go back boys to double track. The work ain't hard, the man ain't mean. The cook ain't nasty, but the grub ain't clean. You sleep on my good bed and you call 'em bunk. You eat my good ration, and you call it junk. So, now let's go back.'

How was the arrangement, how was the arrangement of the tents?

The tents were in circles. And each, they were built in circles so as when he'd leave the last tent, he would be at the first tent again. He'd go all around and when he stopped at the last tent, he'd be right back at the first tent again.

Well, he was the foreman of the job?

Well, he was one of the foremans on the job.

Uh-huh.

So, they would take turns in arousing the men every morning but this particular man, he would use those phrase.

Uh-huh. And he just said them like that?

Yes, he didn't have no expression whatever. [Laughter]. It was just dry.

[Laughter]. Even if he had no expression, let's hear it again.

Come on boys, let's go back to double track. The work ain't hard, and the man ain't mean. The cook ain't nasty, but the grub ain't clean. You sleep on the good beds and you call 'em bunk. You eat my good rations, and you call it junk. So, now let's go back.'

Tell me when it would be different.

Well, sometime, when the boss man wouldn't go around himself, he'd send some of the fellas, colored fellas, around to arouse the men. They'd say 'Come on boys, let's go back. Yes, you sleep on his good beds and you call 'em bunk, You eat his good rations, and you call 'em junk. So, now if I have to call it, you want to fight. Now that white man call it, it's captain alright. Now, let's go back.

Alright. Tell us about it.

All of these songs that I'm singing, they didn't have no particular title. We just began singing them as the feelings would come on.

Alright, when did the feelings come on for this one?

Well, sometimes the fellas, it'd be near pay day, and some of the fellas would think about going away to another job and they began feeling good. They began singing some of these songs and this one, in particular.

Go ahead.

During the early days of the settlers in South Carolina, Buford County, when the church was first established there, before there were schools and seminaries, why the preachers preached mostly by imagination, and as I've been in contact during my boyhood days with quite a few settlers from that part of the state, I've learned this sermon how an old minister use to preach it a long time ago and instead of being able to reiterate from the bible, he just imagined something and went on to preach it in a form of dialect as I shall give you now as near as I can imitate him.

What was that song? When did that song come in?

[Laughter] On the close of the sermon, they open the doors of the church after he got through.

Yeah and who would sing it?

Old sister in the corner.

Well I mean was there any particular reason for singing this song? Was that at the opening of the church door?

At the opening of the church door according to the members, the church members.

And this was the song that was used, she would use?

Would you sing it over again, please?

Uh Zora Hurston speaking. In all the big work camps, sawmills, and turpentine, still, and road camps and whatnot they have a man to go down and wake up the camp. And he has various chants and hollers to wake them up and sometimes he wakes them up as he goes along.

Well, speaking about what you're getting ready to, Where'd you hear that?

Well, I heard these at Loughman, a big sawmill down state in Polk County.

Alright

What kind of a song is this, Zora?

This is a Nassau song from the Bahamas.

When is it used?

Well, they sing this song when they're jumping the fire dance.

What is the fire dance?

The fire dance is some sort of African survival in the West Indies and they beat the drums and sing these little songs.

And how did you happen to learn it?

Well, I was doing research down there, collecting songs out of Columbia University and I collected quite a few of them and this is just one of them.

And they keep that up until the drum is cold and then they change it and they sing another song of the same kind.

What is this?

You better sing another song of the same kind.

Uh, this one, this song is [distortion].

Wait [distortion]

Go ahead. Next song.

This little song is a story. Uh, the young lady thinks that it's time for them to get married. in fact, she thinks they just have to and the boy doesn't want to marry and so this song is about it.

Are those songs sung in Florida as well as in the West Indies?

Yes, Dr. Corse. Uh, they are sung in Key West and Miami and Palm Beach and out in the Everglades where a great number of Nassaus are working in the bean fields and whatnot. Uh, there are a great number of them in Florida who hold jumping dances every week.

I think it's very interesting that we have inferences from the West Indies as well as the rural South in our Florida Negro folklore.

Gilberto

What Mr. Gilberto [inaudible] just said is that he is manager of a Latin group now playing at the Cuban Club in Tampa Florida who are going to sing for you some of their traditional Cuban songs. I am the pianist of the unit, Art Pages, and will play some of them for you myself.

Uh, Mr. Pages, Will you tell me where are the people from?

Uh, all these units, all of the actors in the unit are all native Cubans and they came from Cuba two or three months ago.

Uh, will you, can you, tell me in their performance do they play some of the old songs? The traditional songs?

They have to for they are requested to do so.

Good. Go ahead.

Uh, the melody that Estella [inaudible] will sing for you next is a typical Cuban melody. This is sung in the country by the peasants. It's probably uh . . . I don't know what to say.

Well, stay there. How long has she known this song?

Oh, that, she's probably heard it all her life from her parents and so forth.

Well, you go up there and ask her. You ask her.

Do you want me to do that in Spanish?

Go ahead and ask her.

In Spanish?

Sure. Go ahead.

AP asks question in Spanish and Estella responds.

Explain that to us what she said.

Uh, she has said that she has, uh, heard that melody, of course, recently due to the fact that she is very young but she has heard her parents say that have heard it for years and years back.

Ok, ask her to stay up, go up there and [inaudible] on the piano

Estella [inaudible] will sing this melody for you now.

Uh, the Cuban persons use songs to call on their loved ones especially at night or in the morning. The song that Estella [inaudible] sang is one of them. Uh, roughly, it is morning and he is singing to his loved one and though he claims that the sun is just out and he can see everything clearly, it seems like there is nothing around until he's seen her [distortion].

Man speaks in Spanish

[inaudible] Explain what that song tells us [inaudible]

The young man that you have just heard sing is Carlos Poz. He is the blackfaced comedian of the unit, of the Cuban unit. He just sung for you a typical African song, songs that were sung by the slaves when they were brought to Cuba and he has picked that from tradition. That is, he has heard that type of song over and over. It is always heard in Cuba.

How is it, how is it accompanied when it is heard in Cuba?

Uh, they usually use Cuban drums and gourds and sticks like they used to use in the days of the slaves when they didn't have any musical instruments and they were accompanied by sticks and drums and so on.

And that song is part of the regular [inaudible] around cane?

It is. We use it here, we use that type of songs here often.

Is it sung in Cuba by the whites or by the negroes?

Well, no, they, uh, it has been picked from the negroes but it is used by actors.

What's that?

[Inaudible]

Oh, they love it. It's such a strange rhythm to most of all people that they prefer to hear that song to any other.

Thank you, Mr. Pages [distortion].

Uh, the song that you have just heard Carlos Poz sing, it's sort of a negro song. It is a negro telling his girl not to mix with another, uh, tribe, because he does not consider them as good as they are and does not want to, uh, mix the tribes. And --

What do you mean by mix the tribes?

Well, he does that, it seems like the, uh, girl is in love with someone and she, uh, goes to a nearby tribe and he does not want her to continue to go over there and he is asking her to please stay in her, in their grounds.

He doesn't want to have children from the other tribe.

That's right [laughter] [distortion].

The song you have just heard was sung by [inaudible] Martinez. The name of the song is 'Merce'. It is a different type of song that have been sung before, for this one is dance, in dance halls in Cuba, that is that rhythm. You have also heard some Cuban drums played by Roman [inaudible] and Mr. Delfino was playing gourds and I was at the piano, Art Pages.

[inaudible]

Carlos Poz helped her out by helping her sing in the montonu, that is the fast part of the number. The number is divided into two parts. The first part is sung a little slower than the second part. The second part is a little faster. They keep on getting faster until, uh, it takes up to a very fast tempo.

Now would you explain, translate what the words of the song are, what the words of the song are about? Roughly.

What is it about? What is it about?

Roughly, just offhand what does it say?

What is it about? What is it about?

If you give me a chance. Would you cut it out? [Distortion]

Alright.

The idea of the song is uh, the name of the song is 'Merce' and that's a, uh, name, a proper name. It's a negro girl's name and she is supposed to be the most popular of the party and the song refers to her popularity, that is her way of dancing and acting and speaking and so forth and everybody sings to her beauty and her pep, would you say? And the whole song is based on her.

[Inaudible]

And did you get this one in [audible]. Did you say that?

Can you stand up there and explain, give me names [inaudible]? The manager. Can you give his name?

Uh, the song that you heard was sung by Gilberto Elfino, manager of the unit. And the name of the song is 'Nena'.

Now, can you tell m, what type of song is it?

Uh, this is probably the oldest type of Cuban song that has ever, uh, that has been known to be the oldest.

And, uh, where is it learned and how is such a song learned?

Uh, there is no way of tracing it to its author or its originality. It has just been picked from one generation to the other.

Now, can you tell what it's about that song? What does it say?

Well, I don't know [distortion].

Man speaks in Spanish.

Uh, this is a typical song that is sung to a girl by a window, a Spanish, uh, window. And that's about all I know about the song.