Men singing

2714 B1 and 2

[Inaudible]

Women singing

Man singing

2715 A1 and 2

[Inaudible]

Men singing

Men singing

2715 B1 and 2

Instruments playing

Man singing with instruments

Instruments playing

Man singing with instruments

Instruments playing

Instruments playing

Man and woman singing with instruments

Instruments playing

Man and woman singing with instruments

Instruments playing

2716 A1 and 2

[Inaudible]

Women singing

Alright.

Women singing

2716 B1

Alright. Let's play.

Women singing

2717 A1, 2 and 3

Instruments playing

Man singing with instruments

Instruments playing

Man singing with instruments

Instruments playing

Man singing with instruments

Instruments playing

Instruments playing

Instruments playing

2717 B1 and 2

Alright.

Man singing

Man singing

2718 A1 and 2

Alright.

Woman singing with ukulele

[inaudible] Now go.

Woman singing

2718 B1, 2 and 3

[Inaudible]

Woman singing

Alright sing!

Children singing and clapping

Go ahead. Sing it again.

Children singing and clapping

[Distortion]

2720 A1 and 2

Men singing

[Distortion]

[Distortion]

3135 A

My name is Zora Neal Hurston. I was born in Eatonville, FLorida. I'm 35 years old. This song that I'm going to sing is a railroad song that I found on a railroad gang near Miami and was song to me by Max Ford.

How long ago was that?

That was in 1930.

How did you happen to be going around getting songs?

I was collecting folk material for Columbia University as part of the Barnard College, Columbia University.

What is the song called?

They call it "Gonna See my Long-haired Babe" and it's a railroad spiking song and the rhythm is kept with a spike and a hammer.

Will you try to emphasize, give me the approximate rhythm of the hammer with the stick by hitting it against that?

Yes, sir.

ZNH sings 'Gonna See My Long-Haired Babe'

Let them hammers ring, boy.

I see you, you seem to be hitting down twice for a hammer. Why is that?

Uh, the men face each other with hammers and they call on each other; they're breasted, they stand breast to breast and one comes down and the other one comes down.

Immediately afterwards?

Yes, one comes down [strike, strike]

I see [strike, strike] and how long is that between the double strikes?

The minute that one goes down, the other is on the upstroke and comes right down behind it.

And who does the singing?

They sing in line. It's a man who doesn't work at all. And he walks up and down and gives the rhythm for the people to work.

Is this for a whole crew of men?

A whole crew of men singing this one time and the railroad has to pay the singing liner or else the men won't work.

What I'm asking you is if you hear that you only hear the one man singing on a whole section of track.

Not all the time, because different ones have verses they want to put in themselves and so they jump in and after they start the song but the singing liner always starts it.

Well now look, uh, the only thing is that you were giving a long piece of singing without the rhythm of the hammer and I want to know approximately how often that comes.

Well, they often do that and then after that they [distortion] get in there but they [distortion]

3135 B1 and 2

[inaudible]

Uh, this song I got in Callahan, Florida, which is a railroad center in the northern part of Florida.

Inaudible.

I got this in 1935. I don't remember the man's name who sung it to me but I got it at Callahan. It's a railroad camp.

What kind of song is it?

This is not exactly a song. It's a chant for the men lining. You know a railroad rail weighs 900 pounds and the men have to take these lining bars and get it in shape to spike it down. And while they're doing that why they have a chant that, uh, and also some songs that they be used to, the rhythm to work it into place and then the boss hollers 'Bring 'em a hammer gang' and they start to spike it down. And this is a chant for lining the rail.

ZNH chants 'Let's Shake It'

I'd like you to do that again. But this time, when they have . . . What do they call the irons they use?

They call it a lining bar.

Alright. The lining bar. When they work but don't you hear the clink of it?

It's a 'hah'! Now you don't hear the lining bar because it's under the rail and they shove the rail with it.

They hit against it?

No, it's under it. You see, it's just like on this. It's a crow bar.

Because over in Mississippi, they showed me by hitting the thing. They said that the way that they did it was by several men taking a short hit.

Well, I've seen them put it between their legs this way and put it back and they get this, this splange under the rail, and then they 'heh, heh'. You know, like that.

Well, now what do they do? Are they pulling it, pulling it --

Pulling it backwards, they're moving it backwards.

In other words, they have it underneath and they're using the lever to go forward.

That's right. Yes.

Alright.

And all the men, you know because it's always straining and they 'heh'.

About how many are there on a bar?

Oh, some time it's about 7 or 8 on at one time.

Hmhm. Well, I suppose you try it and you sing it over again.

Alright

Or chant it.

ZNH chants 'Let's Shake It'

I got 'That Old Black Gal' is a spiking song that I got down there in Miami and was song by Max Ford the singing liner on this construction crew.

What's it used for?

Used for spiking down the rails.

ZNH chants 'That Old Black Gal'

3136 A

This song they called 'Shove it Over' and it's the lining rhythm pretty generally distributed all over Florida. It was sung to me by Charlie Jones on a railroad construction camp in Lakeland, Florida.

About how long ago?

Uh, I gathered that in '33, 1933.

ZNH sings 'Shove it over'

This is again for lining?

This is a lining rhythm.

Now where is the movement?

When they say Shacka-lacka-lacka like they are getting ready to pull back and when they say 'heh' they shove the rail over.

In other words, this song gives them quite a lot of rest in between.

Right a lot of rest in between.

And a harder shove?

And a harder shove at the end. And they say 'heh', they all go.

It seems to have had a different effect from the other lining one you gave, I mean that one about Mobile.

Yes, but someone was short and someone only just come to the mood of the liner. And the men work whatever song he sung, they work that rhythm.

Uh, now when the men are lining, they put the rail down, and then of course the captain, he's crouched straddle of it and uh, looks down it so he can tell when it's lined up in exact line with the others. And if they carry it, well he'll say shove it over and if they carry it too far, he'll say send it back and when they get it exactly in line, he'll tell em 'join it ahead' but then they corrupted that to 'join ahead' and all of them say 'join ahead' for 'join it ahead'. And, uh, so, uh, this song is about a lining and the rhythm goes with, they put this lining bar, this long steel bar, crow bar between their legs so they have greater purchase and pull back on it.

Well, wait a minute. They pull back . . . and how are they facing in relation to the rail.

Their back is to the rail.

In other words, they're pulling up on the bar.

They're pulling up on the bar. They don't have to look at the rail because that's the captain's job to see when it's right.

Well, what do they do? Do they, how do they get it under the bar, how do they get it under the bar, the rail?

They just push the flange of this lining bar under the rail and then pull back on it.

Do they have to look back at it or do they just feel it?

Oh, they can just feel it. Sometimes they look back, you know, but most of them, they just can feel it and they send it back on there.

Well, uh, you were saying, you were explaining that there's different rhythms that they have. Are there any particular times when a faster on or a slower one would be used?

Well, it's different; it's not any particular time except just the feeling of the singing liner. Whatever song he starts. If it's a fast rhythm they work fast; if its's a slow one, well they work, you know, a little slower but they get just as much work done, it seems, somehow or another.

3136 B

ZNH singing low.

Alright.

Alright, this song I'm going to sing is a lining rhythm and I'm going to call it Mule on the Mount though you can start with any verse you want and give it a name and it's the most widely distributed work song in the United States and it has innumerable verses and whatnot about everything under the sun and it's a lining rhythm though they sometimes sing it just [cut off].

But, did they always have the same tune to it?

Oh yes, they had the same tune all the time but different wording, you know. They would make up words all the time. You see, the fellows from different railroads would come and work on this track with us and each fellow, perhaps he'd have a new verse that he'd add to the song.

Well, good. Well now, let's hear it the way that you remember it.

Well, sing it over again? Sing it now?

Start from the beginning. Alright.

[Distortion]

Tell us about this.

Every morning about four o'clock, the foreman, the tent, sack rouster, would go around and knock on the tent with his axe handle. Says 'Alright boys, let's go back'. Says 'Let's go back boys to double track. The work ain't hard, the man ain't mean. The cook ain't nasty, but the grub ain't clean. You sleep on my good bed and you call 'em bunk. You eat my good ration, and you call it junk. So, now let's go back.'

How was the arrangement, how was the arrangement of the tents?

The tents were in circles. And each, they were built in circles so as when he'd leave the last tent, he would be at the first tent again. He'd go all around and when he stopped at the last tent, he'd be right back at the first tent again.

Well, he was the foreman of the job?

Well, he was one of the foremans on the job.

Uh-huh.

So, they would take turns in arousing the men every morning but this particular man, he would use those phrase.

Uh-huh. And he just said them like that?

Yes, he didn't have no expression whatever. [Laughter]. It was just dry.

[Laughter]. Even if he had no expression, let's hear it again.

Come on boys, let's go back to double track. The work ain't hard, and the man ain't mean. The cook ain't nasty, but the grub ain't clean. You sleep on the good beds and you call 'em bunk. You eat my good rations, and you call it junk. So, now let's go back.'

Tell me when it would be different.

Well, sometime, when the boss man wouldn't go around himself, he'd send some of the fellas, colored fellas, around to arouse the men. They'd say 'Come on boys, let's go back. Yes, you sleep on his good beds and you call 'em bunk, You eat his good rations, and you call 'em junk. So, now if I have to call it, you want to fight. Now that white man call it, it's captain alright. Now, let's go back.

Alright. Tell us about it.

All of these songs that I'm singing, they didn't have no particular title. We just began singing them as the feelings would come on.

Alright, when did the feelings come on for this one?

Well, sometimes the fellas, it'd be near pay day, and some of the fellas would think about going away to another job and they began feeling good. They began singing some of these songs and this one, in particular.

[Distortion]

Go ahead.

During the early days of the settlers in South Carolina, Buford County, when the church was first established there, before there were schools and seminaries, why the preachers preached mostly by imagination, and as I've been in contact during my boyhood days with quite a few settlers from that part of the state, I've learned this sermon how an old minister use to preach it a long time ago and instead of being able to reiterate from the bible, he just imagined something and went on to preach it in a form of dialect as I shall give you now as near as I can imitate him.

What was that song? When did that song come in?

[Laughter] On the close of the sermon, they open the doors of the church after he got through.

Yeah and who would sing it?

Old sister in the corner.

Well I mean was there any particular reason for singing this song? Was that at the opening of the church door?

At the opening of the church door according to the members, the church members.

And this was the song that was used, she would use?

Would you sing it over again, please?

Uh Zora Hurston speaking. In all the big work camps, sawmills, and turpentine, still, and road camps and whatnot they have a man to go down and wake up the camp. And he has various chants and hollers to wake them up and sometimes he wakes them up as he goes along.

Well, speaking about what you're getting ready to, Where'd you hear that?

Well, I heard these at Loughman, a big sawmill down state in Polk County.

Alright

What kind of a song is this, Zora?

This is a Nassau song from the Bahamas.

When is it used?

Well, they sing this song when they're jumping the fire dance.

What is the fire dance?

The fire dance is some sort of African survival in the West Indies and they beat the drums and sing these little songs.

And how did you happen to learn it?

Well, I was doing research down there, collecting songs out of Columbia University and I collected quite a few of them and this is just one of them.

And they keep that up until the drum is cold and then they change it and they sing another song of the same kind.

What is this?

You better sing another song of the same kind.

Uh, this one, this song is [distortion].

Wait [distortion]

Go ahead. Next song.

This little song is a story. Uh, the young lady thinks that it's time for them to get married. in fact, she thinks they just have to and the boy doesn't want to marry and so this song is about it.

Are those songs sung in Florida as well as in the West Indies?

Yes, Dr. Corse. Uh, they are sung in Key West and Miami and Palm Beach and out in the Everglades where a great number of Nassaus are working in the bean fields and whatnot. Uh, there are a great number of them in Florida who hold jumping dances every week.

I think it's very interesting that we have inferences from the West Indies as well as the rural South in our Florida Negro folklore.

Gilberto

What Mr. Gilberto [inaudible] just said is that he is manager of a Latin group now playing at the Cuban Club in Tampa Florida who are going to sing for you some of their traditional Cuban songs. I am the pianist of the unit, Art Pages, and will play some of them for you myself.

Uh, Mr. Pages, Will you tell me where are the people from?

Uh, all these units, all of the actors in the unit are all native Cubans and they came from Cuba two or three months ago.

Uh, will you, can you, tell me in their performance do they play some of the old songs? The traditional songs?

They have to for they are requested to do so.

Good. Go ahead.

Uh, the melody that Estella [inaudible] will sing for you next is a typical Cuban melody. This is sung in the country by the peasants. It's probably uh . . . I don't know what to say.

Well, stay there. How long has she known this song?

Oh, that, she's probably heard it all her life from her parents and so forth.

Well, you go up there and ask her. You ask her.

Do you want me to do that in Spanish?

Go ahead and ask her.

In Spanish?

Sure. Go ahead.

AP asks question in Spanish and Estella responds.

Explain that to us what she said.

Uh, she has said that she has, uh, heard that melody, of course, recently due to the fact that she is very young but she has heard her parents say that have heard it for years and years back.

Ok, ask her to stay up, go up there and [inaudible] on the piano

Estella [inaudible] will sing this melody for you now.

Uh, the Cuban persons use songs to call on their loved ones especially at night or in the morning. The song that Estella [inaudible] sang is one of them. Uh, roughly, it is morning and he is singing to his loved one and though he claims that the sun is just out and he can see everything clearly, it seems like there is nothing around until he's seen her [distortion].

Man speaks in Spanish

[inaudible] Explain what that song tells us [inaudible]

The young man that you have just heard sing is Carlos Poz. He is the blackfaced comedian of the unit, of the Cuban unit. He just sung for you a typical African song, songs that were sung by the slaves when they were brought to Cuba and he has picked that from tradition. That is, he has heard that type of song over and over. It is always heard in Cuba.

How is it, how is it accompanied when it is heard in Cuba?

Uh, they usually use Cuban drums and gourds and sticks like they used to use in the days of the slaves when they didn't have any musical instruments and they were accompanied by sticks and drums and so on.

And that song is part of the regular [inaudible] around cane?

It is. We use it here, we use that type of songs here often.

Is it sung in Cuba by the whites or by the negroes?

Well, no, they, uh, it has been picked from the negroes but it is used by actors.

What's that?

[Inaudible]

Oh, they love it. It's such a strange rhythm to most of all people that they prefer to hear that song to any other.

Thank you, Mr. Pages [distortion].

Uh, the song that you have just heard Carlos Poz sing, it's sort of a negro song. It is a negro telling his girl not to mix with another, uh, tribe, because he does not consider them as good as they are and does not want to, uh, mix the tribes. And --

What do you mean by mix the tribes?

Well, he does that, it seems like the, uh, girl is in love with someone and she, uh, goes to a nearby tribe and he does not want her to continue to go over there and he is asking her to please stay in her, in their grounds.

He doesn't want to have children from the other tribe.

That's right [laughter] [distortion].

The song you have just heard was sung by [inaudible] Martinez. The name of the song is 'Merce'. It is a different type of song that have been sung before, for this one is dance, in dance halls in Cuba, that is that rhythm. You have also heard some Cuban drums played by Roman [inaudible] and Mr. Delfino was playing gourds and I was at the piano, Art Pages.

[inaudible]

Carlos Poz helped her out by helping her sing in the montonu, that is the fast part of the number. The number is divided into two parts. The first part is sung a little slower than the second part. The second part is a little faster. They keep on getting faster until, uh, it takes up to a very fast tempo.

Now would you explain, translate what the words of the song are, what the words of the song are about? Roughly.

What is it about? What is it about?

Roughly, just offhand what does it say?

What is it about? What is it about?

If you give me a chance. Would you cut it out? [Distortion]

Alright.

The idea of the song is uh, the name of the song is 'Merce' and that's a, uh, name, a proper name. It's a negro girl's name and she is supposed to be the most popular of the party and the song refers to her popularity, that is her way of dancing and acting and speaking and so forth and everybody sings to her beauty and her pep, would you say? And the whole song is based on her.

[Inaudible]

And did you get this one in [audible]. Did you say that?

Can you stand up there and explain, give me names [inaudible]? The manager. Can you give his name?

Uh, the song that you heard was sung by Gilberto Elfino, manager of the unit. And the name of the song is 'Nena'.

Now, can you tell m, what type of song is it?

Uh, this is probably the oldest type of Cuban song that has ever, uh, that has been known to be the oldest.

And, uh, where is it learned and how is such a song learned?

Uh, there is no way of tracing it to its author or its originality. It has just been picked from one generation to the other.

Now, can you tell what it's about that song? What does it say?

Well, I don't know [distortion].

Man speaks in Spanish.

Uh, this is a typical song that is sung to a girl by a window, a Spanish, uh, window. And that's about all I know about the song.

Well, did you get the words from them?

No, I couldn't.

Ask them what the words are and you translate.

Men speak Spanish

He just sing to her and telling her how much he loves her, and uh, i other words, uh, calling her to the window in order to start a conversation or something, a song to start a conversation [distortion].

We are now going to give you an idea of the different Cuban rhythms. The first one is a song, that's a slow rumba.

Now, he would play a rumba. That's a faster rhythm.

And now a bembe. That's a typical African rhythm.

And now, a conga.

And now, man. This is probably the oldest rhythm going.

Just tell him, tell him --

This was done by Ramon [inaudible] a Cuban drummer.

And Art Pages, a pianist, was giving the announcement.

[Distortion]

[inaudible]

Roberts: A very long time ago I learned about a funny song, that's all I know. If you like funny songs.

Where did you learn that song?

I learned it all in the [inaudible].

Go ahead and sing it to me.

[inaudible] the last lines of that song, Mr. Roberts. Repeat it for me.

The last lines?

You said there's something in my . . . there's something in my hammond.

yes [inaudible].

What did you mean by that last line?

I meant that uh, to clear my throat. There's something in my hammond, see? And then I said [clears throat], There's something in my hammond, See? That's the end of the song when I said there's something in my hammond.

What song are you going to sing next, Mr. Roberts?

Sweet Robin One Morning in May' [inaudible]

[Inaudible] down the well and he'd sit there down in the well and they'd call his name so when after he got a song up [inaudible] and he said it so much, he said, 'Is that your name, Betty?' Oh, he said, 'that's my name Betty.'

Will you tell us the riddle that you're talking about, Mr. Roberts?

Oh, about the men?

That's right.

How a fellow knows about his name [Distortion] He'd look in the well and then see his picture in the well and he'd say [inaudible] He said these words [inaudible] 'Is that your name, Betty?' Oh, he said, 'that's my name Betty.' That was the first time he ever told anybody's name.

[Inaudible]

[Inaudible]

What do you want me to sing now?

[Inaudible]

[Inaudible]

Feel like I could give you a sample [inaudible]. I'm going to sing it now, eh?

[Inaudible]

[Inaudible]

Well, I want to tell you just about how good tobacco is.

. . . up there, up there from where the hurricanes always start from, what's it called, Puerto Rico.

He was the one who told you that story?

Yes.

Was he a Puerto Rican?

Yes.

How'd he come to tell it to you?

I don't know [laughter]. Just setting down talking to him one day.

Where were you then?

I was here in Florida and he was in Florida too [inaudible]

[Inaudible]

[Inaudible]

[Inaudible]

What part of the Bahamas Where were you born, Mr. Roberts? What part of the Bahamas? How far from Nassau?

I was born in the Abacos.

Oh, Abacos.

[Inaudible] part of Abacos, yes.

How far from Nassau?

About a hundred miles from Nassau [inaudible]

go ahead and tell us this riddle, then.

What's the answer to the riddle?

The answer to the riddle [inaudible]