Astrology And Spirituality Tags Used in Events

Lisa Biow: Within the last year two years. I don't know exactly where it's found, maybe it was two and a half. I'm not sure. We'd have to look at maybe the transits. I mean, the exact-- I mean the memories, to look back to actually where the [unintelligible 00:00:14] but [unintelligible 00:00:15] and it probably would've gone back and forth in turns, because Saturn always goes back and forth, but Saturn, in terms of being a planet-- the 10th house is Saturn's natural house anyway.
When Saturn transitioned midheaven, it's a really big deal and has a lot to do with either you get serious about your work then, or you lose it. It's like your big opportunity to get it together, in terms of being real disciplined about your work.
Depending on what's been going on with Saturn and you, and how much you've gotten your work together. It's like if you've been doing your work real steadily before that point, it's a time of starting to reap the rewards of it. Usually, what it is, more often, is they're starting to get it really seriously together and starting to get really disciplined about your work in a way that will end up being very-- What is the word? "Rewarding" later on, like you're sowing the seeds, and stuff, that you will reap later.
It's a time of really starting to get that together and really just building up your structure [inaudible 00:01:30] It's a big deal transit.

Gloria Anzaldúa: I don't know when it happened. I think it keeps happening, but--
LB: Well, it's still in your 10th house, for the next-- Let's see where it is exactly. Actually, no, it's just going out of your 1st house now. It's going into your 11th house, which will be interesting too. It's almost conjunctional [inaudible 00:02:02], which will be an interesting time in terms of writing also. It's conceivable that you might have a difficult time with writing. You might have a difficult time-- In terms of the writing, it won't come easy to you. You'll have a lot of discipline from it, but it won't come easy to you.
GA: Sometimes, it's not easy at all.
LB: Next month, and the next one. Saturn will go over your Mercury, which may be a hard time getting-- It's like the thoughts won't flow really easily. On the other hand, your discipline will be real good and you'll learn a lot, but you may go through like a few days then when it's-- or even a week or so. It's not a very long transit when [inaudible 00:02:56] back and forth. [inaudible 00:03:05]
I think there's an [inaudible 00:03:20] here [inaudible 00:03:22] or something. I don't know. Maybe that's for the year, it just happens.

GA: What, Saturn?
LB: No, that's [unintelligible 00:03:28] That's [inaudible 00:03:33] right. I think the October is the one when you can make the [inaudible 00:03:38] It's not going to quite make it that far because it's going to go forward the rest of [inaudible 00:04:00] It's like 3 degrees short of your Mercury right now. Maybe you're probably feeling it a little bit, but it's going to go backwards if you move forward. It's goes backwards, all the way to 15 degrees [inaudible 00:04:16]
GA: So that's going to be an interesting time?
LB: Yes. It'll be. What I imagine what would happen when the transit actually occurs, which will be in October, will be that it'll be a time when it'll be real- The inspiration won't come easy. It'll probably-- Actually, it'd be a great time to do work that depends less on inspiration and depends more on hard work. The kind of intellectual, like be it editing stuff or retyping stuff to send out somewhere or organizing your notes on something where there-- or gathering information for something, or the kind of stuff that's much more of the discipline, nitty-gritty kind of stuff. It'll be a real good time for that and not such a great time for flashes of insight.
GA: Sí. This is in October?
LB: Yes, in October. Probably [inaudible 00:05:26]
GA: It's not going to last long, is it?
LB: You'll feel it for a couple of weeks, probably. Anyways, if you want time to plan when you should do that kind of work, just do it at the end of October. [unintelligible 00:05:39] Uranus is in [inaudible 00:05:41] Uranus is in your 12th house right now, which is probably-- A lot of stuff is erupting in your subconscious that you can't get a handle on.
GA: Exactly, exactly.
LB: Little explosions are going on, you know something is happening, but you don't know what it is.
GA: I can't figure out what it is.
LB: In that sense, it'll probably be a relief when it goes into your 1st house, even though it may shake up your self-image a little bit. You'll, at least, be able to put your hands on it.

GA: When will it go into my 1st house?
LB: It's next year. It's until next year. It's not-- Anything that's going on in the 12th house, especially when it's near the cusp, it's a lot. That's what I was saying. It feels like being premenstrual, sort of. You can almost figure out what's-- it's like almost there. Stuff is rumbling around in the background. It's imminent, this feeling of imminence and of something that is happening and you don't have very much control over and you can't really quite figure out.
It could be good in terms of writing and could be real interesting to just maybe to try and actually focus on using imagery or relying more on imagery that comes from a real subconscious source for a while and playing around with that because there's a lot of stuff going on on that level, at the moment, and a lot of flashes.
GA: Sí.
LB: It would be nice to do dream work kind of things and just complete free writing kinds of things, and it'd probably be a really interesting time to try that. In terms of how to deal with it. Anything that has to do with the 12th house, the only way to deal with it is to let go, to be able to let go and let it be. Pay attention, but let it be.
GA: Si. That's so hard for me to do.
LB: Yes. The 12th house is a hard house. This just has your sun in the 12th house. That is a really difficult place for [inaudible 00:08:07].
GA: Oh, so is Cherrie's and Randy's. Both of them.
LB: It's hard.
GA: Plus they have Venus. What else do they have…? [unintelligible]
LB: It's interesting. It makes for a potential for a tremendous amount of compassion, but it's not easy in terms of figuring out what you want to be doing and how to do it.
GA: Saturn, Venus, and Neptune are in the 12th house?
LB: [unintelligible]
GA: [laughter] Sí.

LB: [unintelligible] Some time next year [chuckles] It's going to square your natal Neptune, which means-- and then it’s gonna square your sun.
GA: What's going to square? Uranus?
LB: Neptune.
GA: Neptune.
LB: Which is now in the first half. That's the one that we're having a hard time figuring out, what's going on with you, how you want to relate to other people and feeling like other people's images of you are somewhat distorted, at the moment, anyway, or you're not putting-- There's some gap between how you see yourself in the world and how other people are seeing you. All that stuff.
Anyway, Neptune is going to square your natal Neptune, which just-- It means some-- Anytime there's like a square between a planet, at the moment, and your natal position. It's-- there's some sort of either a crisis or some realization or something, some big change goes on in terms of that planet. I mean, there's a real chance to get a much clearer handle on that planet [inaudible 00:10:37]. [unintelligible 00:10:39] I'll be talking for psychic things maybe next year, some sort of [crosstalk] a little crossroads.
GA: Next year around this time, you think? You don't know?
LB: I don't know because it keeps going backwards and forwards, so there's no way to really figure. It only change- it goes-- It's at 25 now. It's going be on like 27 at the end of the year. Yours is 29, so [inaudible 00:11:05]
GA: [chuckles] Okay.

LB: [inaudible 00:11:09] at 27 degrees heading for [inaudible 00:11:11] A lot of the 10th house transits, though. That's more transformational on the 10th house. It's trans-formula [inaudible 00:11:28]. It's a long transit. Pluto takes like a minimum of 18 years to get through a house, so it's been there for a while. Wait a second. Hold it, hold it. Is that [inaudible 00:11:48] Wasn't your [inaudible 00:11:52]?
What year were you born?
GA: '42.
LB: [inaudible 00:12:13] It's here. We went over your-- That would have been interesting. When was that happening? It really looks like-- I don't really understand. At some point, in the not-too-distant house, it went over here and here, which is probably a really big change in terms of how you [inaudible 00:12:38] about the [inaudible 00:12:40] It moved 2 degrees [unintelligible 00:12:43] over there. [inaudible 00:12:46]
GA: It just moved 2 degrees during the whole year?
LB: Yes.
GA: God.
LB: It's now 27 degrees. I guess about sometime within the last year or two, probably last year, and you've been feeling it for a while. Before that, you were feeling it still, but there was some point at which it was the most intense, and it was probably some time in the last year, towards the earlier part of last year. Maybe, I don't know, maybe the middle. It's hard to tell.

GA: I've been having really intense times for like a year and a half.
LB: Yes. It's transformation in terms of the way that you think and a real deepening of the way that you think.
GA: mmhm
LB: Anyway, and you still are in the middle of it. You're still technically in motion.
GA: [chuckles]
LB: Quite. It moved, and it was 2 degrees.
GA: Yes.
LB: [unintelligible 00:13:46]
GA: That's [inaudible 00:13:47].
LB: [inaudible 00:13:48] I understand. I mean, it's difficult, probably a little bit shaky at moments.
GA: Well, I don't know what's going on, but it's been going on since May. I really felt it.
LB: I really [unintelligible 00:14:06] in terms of, it's real interesting to look back on different periods and different real big changes in people's lives and stuff. Health things are real interesting to look at too. There was like a roommate of mine who had an ulcer, who we figured out. We figured out when it started and looked back in her chart, and it's these outrageous transits. I mean, all having to do with Cancer, and just the stomach, and Mars things and Saturn. Mars and Saturn and 4th House Cancer stuff. It was just like so clear, and it was incredible.
GA: Yes. I wonder if that was going on when I had my-- [crosstalk]
LB: Yes. I mean, for that, it was especially look-- We look-- possibly for Cancer, but especially for Scorpio, it kind of split up things.

GA: Well, if I got an ephemeris, would you teach me how to use it?
LB: Sure. I could teach you right here, because this is an ephemeris. This is what a page of an ephemeris looks like.
GA: I see.
LB: When you get the book. You look at the dates. These are all the different planets, and you just look down. It's-- Like on the 6th, the sun is-- this is-- you look at the top of the column for the sign, in the middle, for the sign, if it changes somewhere. Like there, it changes to a [unintelligible 00:15:31] at that point.
GA: You need a magnifying glass.
LB: Yes. Anyways, on the 6th, it's 15 degrees, 20.6 minutes Capricorn.
GA: Ahh. Oh, well that's easy.
LB: Yes. I mean, it's hard to read the numbers on this page, but that's how you do it.
GA: If I want to figure out where Uranus is right now, today is the 2nd.
LB: 3rd.
GA: The 3rd. It's 2 degrees south.
LB: Yes. 2 degrees 47.1.
GA: That might as well be 3.
LB: That's almost 3, yes.
GA: Sagittarius, so that was right over my ascendant.
LB: No, it's not. This is what I was telling you. It's around your 12th house. It's not going to move over your ascendant until next year.
GA: Oh, okay.
LB: And it goes backwards probably.
GA: I see. That's easy. It's easy to do. Then if I want to look up when I was operated, then I just look up. Okay.
LB: Yes. You find [inaudible 00:16:38] you look at the date, and you write down all the planets, and you go back to your chart and figure out all the aspects.
GA: okay

LB: The transits, in terms of looking at the transits in general, you look at-- The inner planets are all much faster and they're much more sort of localized and sort of like what's going on in your life at the moment. You have a fight with a friend this day, you write a poem, those kinds of transits. I mean they're much-- where you're really concerned with one particular issue this week, or something. It's much more daily life kind of thing.
There are transits that are much more profound in your life are from Saturn on and out. Saturn turns [inaudible 00:17:36] In terms of your lever gear, which means it's pretty close to the beginning, so it's like a [inaudible 00:17:44]. There's a couple things that could be going on. First of all, possibly some sense of restriction in terms of friendships, feeling like a lack of friends or else possibly a feeling like you want to gather all your friends around you.
GA: Sí.
LB: Feeling like you really-- you like, all of a sudden, they've become much more precious to you. There's a little bit of this kind of wanting to conserve your circle.
GA: Sí.
LB: And a sense of the responsibility in terms of what you're kind of feeling. It just feels a little more weighty than it does usually.
GA: Yes. I started crying Christmas Eve because I miss my family and my friends. I never cry, hardly ever cry.
LB: Yeah. Possibly of feeling a little bit of a lack of a community at the moment.
GA: Sí.

GA: Would there be a way to devise a chart that you could superimpose on this and move around?
LB: No, because the planets will move at different rates. No. You would probably make [unintelligible 00:22:26] all the planets [unintelligible 00:22:27]
GA: [laughs] [crosstalk] That might be worth doing. I love to do-- play with little things like that.
LB: [crosstalk] It's very handy, actually [unintelligible 00:22:41] aspectarian.
GA: As-pect-arian?
LB: It's like a little wheel, and it tells what year [unintelligible 00:22:50] All the planets and aspects-- All the aspects written on [inaudible 00:22:54] On the outside [inaudible 00:22:57] on the inside [inaudible 00:22:58] Anyway, what you do is you figure out aspects of it, and you can figure them out [snaps fingers] like that because it's got it all just like, "Okay, one is 29 degrees, and then the other one is 30 degrees, this, and you just read it right off there, where there is [unintelligible 00:23:17]
GA: Do you have one of those?
LB: I don't think I have one anymore. I used to have one. They're real handy. They cost like $2 or something. You can check them on [unintelligible 00:23:24]
GA: Oh, I should get one?
LB: They're really handy. They're really handy when you're doing transits because you can just figure out what the [unintelligible 00:23:30] planet at the moment [unintelligible 00:23:33] on the chart. You would line up one of the points with the degree that that planet was at, and then you would just look around the wheel and even read off where the squares are, where the oppositions are, where the [unintelligible 00:23:49] are [unintelligible 00:23:50] and look on the chart and [inaudible 00:23:51]

LB: [unintelligible 00:03:26]
GA: [unintelligible 00:03:29]
LB: Now let's see, here. [unintelligible 00:03:36] There's a nice little circle, here. It's like [unintelligible 00:03:56] from Mars to Pluto [unintelligible 00:04:00]
It's sort of like like a mini grand trine. A grand trine is this wonderful aspect that everybody always wants.
GA: Which I don't have.
LB: Which you don't have. Linda has one. They're very, very rare. We have three planets that are all trying to be [unintelligible 00:04:15] circle of energy. It's like a mini grand trine with two [unintelligible 00:04:21] There's a really fluid connection between those three planets. It's nice, and puts more emphasis on the Pluto, which is in the middle.
Pluto in 8th house. The energy in both of those are similar. It's like the 8th house is the Pluto of the houses, kind of. It means that in some way there's a lot of emphasis in your life on transformation, a lot. There's a thing about Pluto where there's a constant need to transform yourself, move to another level. It's like the phoenix, is that symbol.

LB: Anyway, it's [unintelligible 00:07:20] and that's a real important thing in your chart that, need to be [unintelligible 00:07:24]
What else? The moon's nodes. I don't know a whole, whole a lot about the moon's nodes. I know some. Supposedly what they're about is the South Node is the kinds of stuff that comes real easy to you. It's real natural, second nature stuff. Also in the south node, [unintelligible 00:08:00] in a way that can be real productive. They're things that come so easy to you you don't even need to think about them. The problem is that you can get really stuck there, because it's so easy.
GA: You don't want to let go.
LB: So long as you use it and move with it to another place, it's fine. The way people interpret it, if you were into karmic astrology is the South Node is stuff that's left over from the last lifetime. You don't even need to think about it, it's just very second nature. The North Node is the stuff that you need to do in this lifetime. They're opposite to each other [unintelligible 00:08:43] moving this way, using this to move there. So the South Node--
GA: I have a hard time letting go, just letting go and going.
LB: Yeah, getting on with it.

GA: You're probably tired.
LB: [unintelligible 00:16:52]
GA: Maybe you'd like to finish off by talking about maybe in the broad strokes about Uranus, because that seems to be-- It was such a shocker to hear you say that because it would have never dawned on me.
LB: That it was important?
GA: Yes, that it was important in the chart, because as far as I knew there was just that--
LB: Yes, it's interesting, because usually unless there's certain aspects or placement or something unusual going on with that planet, it's not a very important planet in people's charts, unless they'd doing a lot of spiritual disciplines, which is different. If people are heading into spiritual stuff then the outer planets are more involved, because they have to do with that. Otherwise people who are living normal, everyday sorts of lives, usually those planets are not very important. They're much more important by generation. On your chart I wonder where the aspects of [unintelligible 00:17:50] There's the [unintelligible 00:17:53] Mars, there's the sextile, there's that little triangle, there's conjunct. That's an interesting conjunction, too.
GA: What, Saturn and-- Oh, I hadn't thought of that as loose.
LB: It's loose, but it makes it-- [unintelligible 00:18:21] [silence]

GA: This is trine Sun?
LB: Yes. It's trining your Sun and it's trining your Mars. It's not the most important planet in your chart, but it's important. It's important mostly by aspect, all those aspects. These two trines and that sextile. They're all numerous aspects, too. Has it got any squares? Yes, and it is square your nodes. The only aspects you count to the node are squares.
GA: So Uranus square nodes?
LB: Squares, conjunctions and oppositions, those are the only ones that count. It's not considered a bad or difficult aspect when it's square to the nodes, usually. I don't know. People argue back and forth about that. Some people do consider it difficult. Some people would read a square from this to the nodes as being a little bit out of sync with the times in either direction, either being a little bit ahead of the times or a little bit-- Probably ahead if it's Uranus, Uranus is always ahead, but being a little bit ahead of your world so that there's always-- It makes it difficult and exciting at the same time, because it tends for people to think you're a little off the walls sometimes.
GA: Sí. Yes. [laughs]
LB: Yes, you're [unintelligible 00:20:02]
GA: Yes.
LB: At least 20 years ahead of yourself.
GA: [chuckles]

GA: What is the “DT” over here?
LB: I think what that means is that it just went direct. What happens is that when the planets switch from retrograde to direct or direct to retrograde, there's a period in which they slow down markedly, and then they go again. There's like a shifting of the gears and they slow down a lot. Different people make different things about it being more-- I don't even know what to do with it, but I know that there's something about--
GA: It came up right when on the shift point or after the shift. That's funny, because I talk a lot about this shift in perspective in my essay.
LB: It's interesting. That's Uranus kind of stuff. Uranus is like-- it's like a kaleidoscope. You turn the kaleidoscope and the whole thing changes. That's Uranus kind of stuff. All of a sudden something happens, and the way the world looks to you is suddenly completely rearranged, all the pieces are in different places, and your perspective on something changes very fast and very radically. It's very Uranian.
It's going to be really interesting when it goes [unintelligible 00:28:54] I think it'll be a nice point, too. The Neptune stuff you can probably do without-- You can't do without it. It's there and you should deal with it. It's probably good for you, but it's not easy. The Uranus stuff, I think, will be fun. Traumatic in moments, but it's--
GA: Isn't it happening now, though?
LB: Yeah. I mean, it's there. I don't know exactly where.
GA: What does this--
LB: It's somewhere in Sag. No, that's Uranus. Neptune. When was this done?
GA: This was done last May.

LB: Last night Neptune was in the first house. Probably had been there for at least-- I don't know, sometime within last year it went into the first house. Sometime around the time [unintelligible 00:29:43] started looking more confusing in terms of what you want-- The whole thing I was talking to about that Neptune transit being a time when it's really hard to get a handle on who you are in relation to other people and how you want to be putting yourself out there in the world.
GA: You don't think it's happening now?
LB: Yes, it is happening now. It's just that it started then.
GA: It's going to stay there for a little while?
LB: It's going to stay in your 1st house for approximately 11 years, but it's most intense now because it's [unintelligible 00:30:15]. Oh, good. This will tell us. [silence] Somewhere in here there will be a-- I'm not sure. [unintelligible 00:30:30] What's today?
GA: January [crosstalk]--
LB: [unintelligible 00:30:38] Just checking [unintelligible 00:30:40] The moon is an Aries. Yes, [unintelligible 00:30:43] It really felt in Aries last night, and everyone was dancing through all hours of the [unintelligible 00:30:50]
GA: Oh, yeah, and I was able to do all those pages of writing.
LB: Well, your moon is in Aries. It's an interesting time for you when it's in Aries. You'd be writing from a much less conscious, "This is what I'm going to do now," and a much more rush of energy that you're not quite sure where it's coming from.
GA: Yes, I was flabbergasted, because usually I just do what I have to do.

LB: Yes, yes, that would make sense. [unintelligible 00:31:21] I always have a difficult time when the moon is in my 12th house. Moon in the 12th house always feels to me like premenstrual time, or almost at something and not quite there yet.
GA: The moon is in your 12th house right now?
LB: Yes, actually, it's in my 12th house. It wasn't yesterday. It's going to be today and tomorrow, and it will go into my first house sometime [unintelligible 00:32:02]
GA: The moon right now is in my 5th house. Is that right?
LB: Which is also the house of creativity and self-expression, an especially fortuitous time to write. The easiest moons for you are, let me see, in Aries-- Oh, there's some tension there, too. The beginning of Aries is hard for you a little bit, sometimes.
GA: Oh, yeah. I get very out of sorts.
LB: Because it's opposing your sun, and the later part of Aries [unintelligible 00:32:46] today, actually. Sunday. [unintelligible 00:32:54].

GA: When was the moon in Pisces?
LB: It was in Pisces at New Year's, actually.
GA: Yes, that's when I have a hard time. It's like everything is so big.
LB: Actually, it went into Aries on New Year's-- Just before New Year's it went into Aries, which is odd.
GA: Well, then that's when I was having a hard time. Yes, that's when I was having a hard time.
GA: Now it's in Aries. [unintelligible 00:33:22] Well, now it's moving [unintelligible 00:33:24], which is going to be luminous. It's difficult when it's– Cancer moon is a hard moon for me, and Capricorn moon is a hard moon for me.
GA: I noticed that Capricorn is hard.
LB: Cancer, not as much, because at some point in the later part of Cancer it transits with Jupiter, which is nice. The early part of Cancer is a drag, because it squares your sun and with Mars.

GA: In a few days it'll go into Taurus, the moon?
LB: [unintelligible 00:33:55] it goes into Taurus [unintelligible 00:33:57] very early in the morning.
GA: That's very interesting because, see, I had kept up with the houses and the planets, but I hadn't kept up with the moon and the houses. That's really interesting.
LB: Yes, it's interesting. [unintelligible 00:34:13] It makes a big difference. People of suns in Cancer or moons in Cancer or a lot of stuff in Cancer or in some other way have a very strong moon feel the moon cycles much more than other people. A lot depends on your char. Depending on what planets are pronounced in your chart to start off with, different transits will hit you stronger than they would other people. I feel the moon transits pretty strongly because [unintelligible 00:34:43] I feel the sun transits real strongly. You would feel Jupiter transits a lot and Venus transits a lot.
GA: Like my friend Randy has his moon in the 10th house, and he's always very keenly aware of the moon.
LB: What sign is it in?
GA: Moon in Virgo.
LB: A strong [unintelligible 00:35:20]. Yes. I have a friend with a moon in Cancer, and we sat down, we were working with her chart once and-- No, she's got sun in Cancer, moon in Virgo. We figured out, and it was real interesting, it helped her a lot. We figured out that-- I sat down and started telling her which moons would be difficult for her and which moons wouldn't, and she was like, "I go through this every month." It was like, once she got used to the idea that that was happening, it was like the times-- there were three signs in a row that were all real difficult for her, and every month she would go through a week that was just the pits.
Once she got used to the fact that, yes, okay, that's happening and it's going to pass in three days, it was much more manageable to her because she would just be incredibly depressed, and it would drag on. It wasn't just even a two and a half day one. It was seven, eight days in a row it would be rough for her, and once she got used to the idea that, yes, that was going to happen, it was more manageable.

LB: Almost always somewhere in these things they have just a little diagram of where everything is at the moment. [unintelligible 00:37:28].
GA: I also have the-- You know the Shambhala astrological calendar?
LB: You have that?
GA: I have it right over my desk.
LB: Do you have one with [unintelligible 00:37:41]? I don't know that one.
GA: I don't know. I got this for Christmas. Every year I get one, and this year I got one given to me.
LB: [unintelligible 00:38:00] You've got everything in here [unintelligible 00:38:19] [crosstalk]
GA: They have an ephemeris.
LB: Oh, they do?
GA: I think they have one for each.
LB: This is for this year?
GA: Yes, this is January.

LB: [unintelligible 00:38:27] Here we go. Oh, I can do--Mirtha has been asking me to do her transits [unintelligible 00:38:32]. Okay.
You should write this-- Oh, you have some tape? You want to know what these tr--I'll tell you what all these transits are.
GA: I lost my pen.
LB: You should write these down because [unintelligible 00:38:47].
GA: I don't know what I did with my pen. Oh, here it is. Can you see?
LB: Yes. Sun is 15 degrees Capricorn. [unintelligible 00:39:06].
GA: What do I write?
LB: Sun is 17 degrees Capricorn. Moon is 10 degrees Aries. Mercury is 26 degrees Capricorn. Venus is eight degrees Aquarius retrograde. Mars is 8 degrees Libra. Jupiter is six and a half degrees Scorpio. Saturn is one and a half degrees Libra. Mars is three degrees Sagittarius. [unintelligible 00:40:21] Neptune is 14 degrees Sagittarius. [unintelligible 00:40:34] Pluto is 27 degrees Libra. [unintelligible 00:40:50] Assuming that your chart is exactly accurate, it's hard to assume. It's not going to [unintelligible 00:41:06]
GA: What, Uranus? Oh, so the big change will be-- God, that's exciting.
LB: You just have Neptune to [unintelligible 00:41:13] Neptune is going to go back over there soon. [unintelligible 00:41:18] Neptune is-- It's pretty close to your [unintelligible 00:41:22] What did I tell you? I have the degrees wrong. What did I tell you on Neptune?
GA: 14 degrees Sag.

LB: [unintelligible 00:41:37] So it's moving along there. Okay, what did I just tell you? I'm [unintelligible 00:41:50]
GA: I'm already into Capricorn.
LB: Well, this is by transit. That's different from progression.
GA: Oh, okay.
LB: That's where the sun is right now, as opposed to-- When you do a progression, what you do is, it's like you're taking your own chart and moving it through time, as opposed to just where they are right now and how they're hitting your chart
GA: I forget that--
LB: The progression is much more internal, your own chart moved along. How you're moving along in your own life, as opposed to what they're doing and how it's affecting you.
GA: Sí, I forget that.
LB: The sun is in your 2nd house. The moon is in your 4th house. That's interesting. There's a lot more emotional attachment going on to your own space.
GA: Oh, yeah. I'm having all that, yeah.
LB: Just in the last [unintelligible 00:42:53]
GA: Yeah, when Sonia and Mirtha came back, it was almost like I resented the fact that-- I was glad they were back, but it took me a day or so to adjust.

LB: Yes. [unintelligible 00:43:14]
GA: Right now?
LB: Yes. It's going backwards, so [unintelligible 00:43:37] Mars is in your 10th house. [unintelligible 00:43:46] Jupiter is your 9th house. [unintelligible 00:43:54] Jupiter is in your 10th house. Saturn is in the 10th house.
GA: Are they going to stay there for the rest of the month, you think?
LB: Yes. I mean, well some of them will. Saturn-- As you move out along this way, they get slower. Mercury is the fastest. No, the moon is the fastest. Mercury and the sun are almost the same. I think Mercury's moving a little bit faster, and then Venus, Mars, Jupiter. Saturn will be in that house for a while. Even the Jupiter [unintelligible 00:44:44].
GA: That'll be a lot of energy.
LB: Which one?
GA: With all those in the 10th house.
LB: Yeah. A lot of 10th house coming up.
Yes, a lot of energy for your-- The stuff on you having a lot invested in wanting to make an effect on the world, there's a lot of energy for that. However you have chosen to do that, which I assume is you're writing, there's a lot of energy for that right now and a lot of stuff going on [unintelligible 00:45:13].
[sound cut]
[00:45:32] [END OF AUDIO]

Lisa Biow: In terms of figuring out the [inaudible 00:00:04] There have different energies coordinated into one. Of the different planets, all the different aspects of your own energy, and how to use it, and different parts of yourself. How those are related to each other. Whether there's a smooth connection between things, or they'll clash.
Gloria Anzaldúa: That's what is meant by bad aspect or good aspect?
LB: Right.
GA: People use that.
LB: That's a lousy way to put it because it's not a matter of bad. There's the harmonious and the unharmonious aspects. The harmonious ones are the trines and the sextiles. The disharmonious ones are the squares and the oppositions, and conjunctions are neutral.
Also, the [unintelligible 00:00:53] is a little bit difficult. Actually, it's probably better, probably the easiest way-- I think the best way to think about them is fluid and difficult, or fluid and stressful.
Conjunction is neutral, although it's a very powerful aspect, it's not really one way or the other. A lot depends on other aspects that are going on, and when the placements are, and that kind of thing. Anyway, the reason why I don't like to think of them in terms of good or bad is, people who have-- I've seen charts of people who have all trines and sextiles, and it doesn't work out very well. It can, depending what your life is about and what you want to be doing.
Things come so easy that it's hard to really move to another plane with anything because you're not challenged. You don't run up against a block that makes you jump to something higher. Squares and oppositions make you do that, it's like some war with yourself that generates a tremendous amount of energy.
GA: That makes sense.
LB: That can give you an amazing amount of [unintelligible 00:02:07] to do something, but [crosstalk]
GA: You have to be dissatisfied with something before you would want to change it.
LB: Right, and also the sparks, the clash.
GA: They're both necessary.
LB: That's why I don't like to look at it, it's more like challenges and blessings. Anyway, that's basically-- There's also, in terms of the different aspects, very briefly, the conjunction is the two planets above, and the conjunction are just very much connected to each other, and they feed each other tremendously in some way. Anyway, men need to strengthen each other.
GA: Like my Sun and Mars.
LB: [unintelligible 00:03:06].
GA: I know, that's funny that they should be together because that's a lot of force.
LB: It's a lot of force. Yes, you have a lot of energy to do stuff. When I say it's neutral, that's the most neutral of the aspects, in that it's a tremendous amount of energy, a lot of initiative, a lot of, ""This is what I want,"" and then they go do it, stuff. Which can be, depending on how you use that, can be wonderful, or can lead to real rashness, jumping into things too fast, being oblivious to other people's needs sometimes. Really and that depends on other aspects. Depends on what you do with it.

GA: I don't think I use my time well because I get tired.
LB: Yes, and also your tendency is to jump into things, sometimes. Work real, real hard and burn out. It is a burnout aspect altogether, tremendous amounts of energy. You really do have tremendous amounts of energy, but you can have trouble disciplining it. Spreading it out over time, conserving it and then--
GA: I've been working to do that for years, to get that kind of discipline. It's been a lot of work.
LB: Even just physically, of saying, "Okay I've done enough for today," and stopping, so you're not wiped out for the next week, but it's also wonderful in terms of just-- It lends a certain fierceness and physical charge to your sense of what you want to do in the world. When you decide you want to do something, the energy is there. It's not like you have to work to get motivated on stuff, [crosstalk] the discipline.
GA: Yes, well what does the fact that Neptune is also so close to that, what does that mean?
LB: Neptune has conjuncture Sun, it's not really, well loosely conjuncture Mars. Sexually, it does make it as a conjunction. There's something called orbs, which is the amount of variance off the exact angle that you still count as that angle. They're different for the different aspects, and they're also different depending on which planets they are. Also, different astrologists disagree on how much [unintelligible 00:05:43] on that. Usually, you allow a larger orb when it's one of the inner planets, it's one of the outer planets. The inner planets being anything from Saturn on in, and the outer planets from Saturn on out. Neptune is one of the real-- It's too past Saturn and Mars as one.
This side of Saturn, so that would be a larger orb, and the conjunction is a pretty large [unintelligible 00:06:08] 8 to 10 degrees. Anything which falls within 10 degrees of each other, especially if it's with one of the lights, sun or the moon, or if it's inner and an outer planet, [unintelligible 00:06:21] towards that. I don't know, it just [unintelligible 00:06:25] settling phase. Actually no, I meant conjuncture, this is almost 30, so [unintelligible 00:06:30] between 6 and more an 8, so it really is a conjunction. Anyway, the Neptune-sun conjunction, Neptune is a lot of that psychic stuff.
How that goes into your sun, is first of all, that's really connected to your sense of self. There's two things going on. In some way, that kind of energy is connected with your own identity and your own idea for who you are, and what you want to do in the world. On the other hand, it's generally a pretty good indication of having some ability in that area. Of having psychic resources that [unintelligible 00:07:14] into.
GA: Well, I better start developing.
LB: Yes, it's there. When you're looking for that psychic, spiritual. Spiritual is not-- It is real spiritual, but it's different things on the chart that within it gets spiritual kinds of energy, and all very different types. Neptunian type of spirituality is very fluid, oceanic, and vague sometimes. It's the pitfalls with all the Neptunian stuff is drugs. It's in fantasy, getting lost in fantasy.
GA: I've done drugs.
LB: Yes, it's a drug thing. It's such an incredible craving for mystical stuff that if you have trouble finding them in your real life, you tend to create it artificially.
GA: I think I do that too.
LB: Yes, but yes, a real rich fantasy life. What else with Neptune? By contrast, something, Scorpio, eighth house, Pluto's type spirituality is a very different- - It's much more occult, much more overwhelming. Neptune is overwhelming in a sense of drowning, but Pluto is like a volcano. It's more occult, it's more explosive. Not fast explosive, but turn your life upside down, everything you ever thought is not going to work anymore. Spirituality, throw it all out the window and start all over. It's very much about upheaval in terms of formation and real, powerful, concentrated, overwhelming stuff. Whereas Neptune is much more diffuse.

GA: Do you know if Scorpio is going to go into Scorpio in the next [crosstalk]?
LB: Yes, and it's a very heavy astrological thing. It takes Pluto, I can't remember calculus. It spends approximately 20 years in this sign, and so it affects whole generations, and it's very interesting stuff. You look historically at the different Pluto transits, it's when Pluto was in Cancer, was the Depression. When Pluto was in Leo was the discovery of atomic energy, and when it was in Virgo was drugs, all the drug culture stuff. Lots of people getting into health stuff, all of a sudden. It sounds like an incredible transformation of consciousness in some way in relation to that particular area.
GA: It's going to be--
LB: Libra is like feminism and relationship stuff. Feminism. When it goes into Scorpio, it's supposed to be the apocalypse, basically.
GA: Oh, yes.
LB: It gets very intense. 1984, actually, Orwell was into astrology, and he picked that date.
GA: I see. I talk about this in my essay a little bit.
LB: It goes into 1984. It should be very heavy.
GA: It stays until the year 2000.
LB: Yes. The world's shortest transit, which is interesting because there's one line about the apocalypse in the Bible. About, unless these times be short, all is lost, or something like that. It's the shortest transit up until now. It's in Scorpio. Anyway, yes, it's very heavy. Certainly, very interesting times we live through, even if you don't know [unintelligible 00:11:17].

GA: It has to do with the companion relationships.
LB: Right. It's also like relationship stuff and figuring out relationship stuff is an incredibly profound thing for you. It's like wherever Saturn falls is an area that is in some way restricted, does not come easy. It's like the lessons that you have to learn. There's a lot about what you have to learn, what you have to work out. Assuming that you do when you get it together, you are richer and more wise in that area than anyone else is, but it's a struggle anyway, so let me know.
GA: Does the point of fortune have anything to do with the fact that it's in the same house as Saturn?
LB: It's not a conjunct. It would make a difference if it was conjunct. There's no conjunct.
GA: So that you want to say--

LB: There's [unintelligible 00:16:37] after Saturn but [unintelligible 00:16:39] I'll mention it now, in case I forget it. Your Saturn is a retrograde.
GA: I see.
LB: A retrograde Saturn. One of the things that means is that, in some ways, you don't have a real strong sense of boundaries. This is where I end. Real sense of, this is who I am in the world, and this is where I'm going. It's self-limitation in a way that gives you strength. In a way, it's both a plus and a minus. It's a plus in that it makes it easier for you to reach out beyond that. It makes it harder in that it's sometimes very hard for you to get a handle on where you end, where other people begin, and where your responsibility to other people ends. Also, in terms of psychic stuff, it means that you need to consciously develop psychic protection because the world rushes in when you align.
GA: It does.
LB: You don't have that automatic stopping point with it, and you can get a little overwhelmed because you don't filter it out. Everything just comes in and hits you so fast.
GA: Mirtha's the same way.
LB: Yes. Which is good in terms of the way you seem to be setting up your life now, when you spend a lot of time alone and you do your work. It's like the perfect way to deal with that kind of way.
GA: [chuckles] It's taken me all my lifetime. It's taken me all these years.
LB: It's like perfect. You have to make your own space, find your own path, and guard it in some ways. You got to cherish it to the point where you don't let the whole world flood in on you, overwhelm you all the time. It's particularly psychic, other people's psychic energies that are overloading their circles.
GA: So true.

LB: It's like I'm lost and [unintelligible 00:18:43] The other part of this conjunction here it is Neptune, Mars, which is a healing aspect.
GA: Oh, yes? I didn't know that.
LB: Physical healing, "laying on of hands" kinds of stuff, so that in some ways, part of the expression or part of the way that you get in touch with that particular kind of psychic stuff is very physical. Mars is a very physical energy, kind of. That's what it's about. How you express yourself physically in your world. So either, healing, laying on of hands stuff, or just that you get that psychic insights into other people or the world or whatever will be felt by you on a very physical level, and you will feel it in your body. As opposed to just singing or seeing images or whatever, you will feel it.
GA: Your body feels everything. It takes it on. Whenever I got into fights with people, I would want to throw up. That kind of thing. I did get into psychic healing where there is some touching.
LB: We've got great stuff for doing stuff, I mean between that aspect and [unintelligible 00:20:06] sixth house, and there is a real potential to know what is going wrong with people physically especially.

LB: I was wondering, we need to look at the aspect [inaudible 00:23:14]. Anyway, [unintelligible 00:23:24] 10 pounds, having all that stuff is that it's a lot of ambition. Not in the sense of wanting to be rich and famous but in the sense of wanting to make an effect on the world.
GA: Oh, yes, I've always felt very strongly.
LB: Something else like not an important part of your life, that's real important to you. It's much more important to you than it is to a lot of people. It's a sense of, you will not be happy with yourself to just sit or lay back and let things happen to you. Some sense of wanting to make a difference. We wanted to make a real effect on some community of some sort.
It's interesting because all the clients that fall in there and is the sun which is a sense of yourself and what you want to be doing in the world. There is Neptune, there is Venus, and there is Mars. Neptune is like aesthetics and love of beauty and harmony and all that. Neptune is the psychic stuff and Mars is just like physical energy. It seems my immediate take on that is the stuff that you-- It kind of affect you and your make on the world is real positive.
GA: Oh, yes.
LB: It's not manipulative, wanting to be a hard shift kind of thing. It's much more wanting-- You know, you feel what's inside of you and you want to put that out there, it's more like wanting to give something to the world as opposed to wanting the world to do something to you.
GA: You know that [unintelligible 00:25:17] comes up from you a lot is the gentle penetration of the wind which is-- It's not like making a big splash, it's just a steady gradual, continuous effect.
LB: Yes. [unintelligible 00:25:43] to ask us [inaudible 00:25:43] [crosstalk]
GA: [unintelligible 00:25:45]

LB: I think of Venus or Mercury in your own [unintelligible 00:25:52] [pause 00:25:56]
GA: You might have stayed in that path that I gave you.
LB: [inaudible 00:26:12] Yes, I did. [unintelligible 00:26:15]. [pause 00:26:16] I mean that's [unintelligible 00:26:38] about your Mercury.
GA: [inaudible 00:26:41]
[pause 00:26:42]
LB: [inaudible 00:26:55]
GA: You also said something on [unintelligible 00:27:09] 11th house.
LB: Right, yes, I was going to say [inaudible 00:27:13] wrong position.
GA: Oh, yes.
LB: [unintelligible 00:27:26]. Okay, Mercury in 11th house is-- Mercury is certainly the way that you-- Let's say you process informations [unintelligible 00:27:45], you think how almost everyone has their own particular grid that you take the [unintelligible 00:27:53] instrument that you express yourself out there to. That's like your Mercury. Just even on how you put information together. It's interesting because if you need to do chart comparisons. People who have Mercury square to each other have a really hard time communicating [unintelligible 00:28:14]. It's interesting.
GA: Really?
LB: Yes, I want to have that with my lover actually. It's very funny, we'll try. Just even talking intellectually about stuff.
GA: I see.
LB: We misunderstand each other, we're going for hours arguing, and when you get to the end. We realize that we completely misunderstood what the other person has said. We'll be arguing politics and when we get to the end of the conversation we realize we were saying the same thing from the beginning. That kind of miscommunication happens a lot when a Mercury is [unintelligible 00:28:43]. People who have Mercury that are conjunct or tied to each other have a really easy time. These are the kind of people that you see up online talking to and just the ideas just go like this.
GA: Yes.

LB: The other thing, at the same time though because I'm Libra, the sense of beauty is very much connected to the way that you think and also the way that you speak and the way that you write is the aesthetic sense. Is a love of language and the beauty of ideas and that kind of stuff is all really important to you. The way that you think and the way that you put ideas together has an aesthetic tinge to it altogether. You're not into information for its own sake so much as the beauty of different ways of thinking and of speaking.
GA: I'm into rhythm and pulse and image, and the form.
LB: The opposition to the moon. I really have to look that one up because I have some vague sense of it but not real clear, it's an important aspect of your chart.
GA: Especially as a Libra and Mars are also opposite.
LB: Usually, oppositions are opposite signs, the square and usually the squares. Most of the aspects that fall around the signs. The signs are square and the trines are in the two planets are in signs that are trine to each other. Sometimes it's not and there's-- Let me show you this. [unintelligible 00:32:09] [silence] These are not [unintelligible 00:32:20]

GA: Which is not conjunct?
LB: Neptune.
GA: Okay. This is Neptune
LB: Oh, not Neptune. I'm sorry, Venus [inaudible 00:32:38]
GA: A friend of mine did that. I don't know how accurate that is.
LB: This is how you draw the [unintelligible 00:32:48] squares on this [unintelligible 00:32:50]. One thing that immediately strikes me in terms of this particular opposition is there's a tension between all the stuff or the Mercury stuff I was just talking about in your moon and areas, which is very impulsive, emotional stuff. You feel something and you feel it now and you tend to say it right out there and just act very fast. That is sometimes a little bit at war with your [crosstalk] the lever, which is very into harmony and your sense of beauty and harmony and balance and all that stuff. Is a little bit at war with the emotional nature, which jumps right into everything.
This is what I think right now, and this is what's true right now, and who cares if it balances out anything and this is, whatever. There's little tension between those two. Also, that sometimes your immediate emotional reactions to things can cloud your intellectual clarity. You sometimes have to wait a little bit until the smoke clears before you can really get clear on what you think about anything [inaudible 00:34:44]
GA: That happens. That's so true.
LB: [unintelligible 00:34:49] you're romantic.
GA: I'm a romantic?
LB: Yes.
GA: Yay. Well, shit.
LB: Sorry. It's true.

LB: She has such a heavy chart. It's a wonderful chart. [inaudible 00:39:02] Anyway, the other thing about the moon childhood stuff, this part of the survival stuff that you developed in childhood where your style of dealing with emotional stuff in childhood was real fast. What do I want in this situation? And very much acting out of, a very immediate and very fast sense of self and that's the way that you got by.
GA: Where's the stuff? Sometimes I tend to hide things. I tend to hide my emotions when I don't vocalize them right away, very fast. I do the opposite. I hide them.
LB: That probably has more to do with the [unintelligible 00:39:52] and the aspects to probably [unintelligible 00:39:59] Although this is the expression, the emotions, and the verbal expression, is like they don't go smooth together. That's another thing about a difficult aspect, that can be a really positive thing in terms of writing. In terms of there's a need to learn how to do that, and, therefore, you would cultivate that more than someone else would.
GA: Right. There's a value in having tensions in the writing, of there being oppositions and there being a struggle between the elements. Otherwise, the thing doesn't have any vitality. You've got to do it in such a way that you can bring it off. [pause 00:40:44] [background noise]

LB: There's a wonderful astrology book on Saturn. There's very few astrology books that I would say are wonderful. It's called Saturn. It's by a woman named Liz Greene.
GA: I should get that.
LB: The whole book is about Saturn. It's very, very good. I had a copy, I should [unintelligible 00:41:15] copy. It's a terrific book.
GA: I'd like to get a copy.
LB: There's also a really nice little book called-- It's weird because it's in two sections, and one of the sections, it's just boring and terrible and glocky. The other section is really nice. I think it's just called The Four Elements, and it's by Steven O'Reilly.
GA: I think I've seen them.
LB: It's got one of the nicest descriptions of the elements I've ever seen. A really nice little thing on the planets too.
GA: I might even have that.
LB: It's real basic, but it's one of the best basic books I own. I go back to it all the time, it's wonderful.
GA: I have a lot of Dane Rudhyar.
LB: I like some of his stuff, but I don't like others.
GA: Well, sometimes he gets a little carried away with his theory and philosophy. Very abstract in some ways.
LB: It's like, "Yo, what does this mean about anybody?" It's much more like, he gets so off in the cosmic thing, it gets very hard to get any sense of what this could possibly mean in somebody's life.
GA: I see.
LB: Some of his stuff is really funny.
GA: Then the other thing I have is this [unintelligible 00:42:29] or something like that?
LB: No, no, no.
GA: [crosstalk] I don't know how good those books are.
LB: I don't think they're very good, because they're not specific enough.

LB: I think this is valid, a lot of the way that people look at charts is like everything that's in your chart are all these different potentials. It's very much you look at the chart in terms of the things, the potentials you have to work with, and the stuff that you're supposed to be doing this time around.
GA: Oh, I see.
LB: A lot of people go into a real heavy karmic thing with that in terms of you choose your chart, which I'm [unintelligible 00:44:05] about because the politics of that can get decidedly weird.
GA: I always wondered, I have two here. Well, actually, there's one here if you don't count that. One, and two there, four there, one here, and one here, and one here. You don't count the nodes, right?
LB: We don't count them as the nodes.
GA: So that the heavy ones are the eighth house, the tenth house?
LB: The seventh, any place you're sounding false is going to be a little heavy.
GA: Would this be heavier than that, then?
LB: Yes, it is. The most intense house in your chart is your tenth house without a doubt. That's all right. That's also a good one. That's the only one that I'm not just drawing into.
GA: What does it mean, Jupiter in my eighth house? [silence]

Lisa Biow: Remind me of the [unintelligible 00:06:23] I'll teach you after this because it's not hard. You need to get one for the year of your birth or get one that--They have like 10-year ones. Anyway, go to [unintelligible] and find out what you can find. If you can get one just for that year it would be nice but it might be hard.
Gloria Anzaldúa: The year of my birth?
LB: Yes. The year of your birth will do it. Because on that method of progression during the course of your whole lifetime, you won't get much past Capricorn. Your Sun won't progress past here. There are different sorts of methods of progression. I don't work with progressions all that much altogether but that's the most standard one. Your moon would be-- Let's see, your moon in 43 would be circled down once and 28. Then 12, 12 days would be about-- I don't know if I can figure this out on my head, probably in Libra.
Yes, Libra maybe is working. I need to look it up. Almost maybe somewhere around there, would've circled around all the way around once and then be a little less than halfway through, et cetera.
GA: That's so interesting. I'm here now and here I thought I'd just gone into my seventh house. [laughs]

LB: I mean there probably are other modes of-- Your moon is over here. Your moon in the air is-- Wait a second, my air is over here and once would be about here.
GA: It's because it's static. If we had things that we could turn around--
LB: I know. People do charts like that sometimes where they have different pointers around. They do it for progressions that they have three different pieces of paper that are circles and there's one of your natal charts and then the transits and your progressions. They're moving them around and then they'll move it a little bit longer to see where you're going to be a year from now in relation to this and that and it's interesting. There are people who actually do that. Where am I at? Oh yes, you're around a square. Let me look at my notes on this for one second. One of the things that goes on with all the Eros connections, and in your case, I think it works mostly pretty well for you. It is all trines and it's like you can get a little lazy in this respect. Trines can make for a lot of laziness.
GA: Yes, that's one of my qualities.
LB: I'm not sure I have that luxury. [laughter] I'm not all square. If you get lazy, you just stay in the same place. In your chart, it generally works fairly well. It's not like you mess yourself up with your Eros. You have absolutely no tolerance for boredom or for conservatism in the strict sense of the people who are interested in making it like they think it was three days ago. You're always moving forward, very inventive, with no respect for authority [chuckles] whatsoever, or convention, or--
If somebody tells you you should do things because this is the way they are done, this is absolute useless information to you, and you're very likely to do exactly the opposite exactly for that reason. It's the sense of--
GA: Reacting?
LB: Not in a bad way necessarily, but if you wanted to break through whatever structures are around you, you don't have any use for that, for social convention, in that sense. It really doesn't.
GA: In friendships too. I like to shake them up.
LB: Oh, yes, it's a real shake-them-up energy. Aquarians are like this in general because they're ruled by that planet, but Aquarians always have this thing, they love to say things that are going to make everybody's jaw drop. They figure it's good for everybody to have their ideas shaken up periodically, and you have that also, of the sense of always wanting to figure out the thing that no one has thought of, that's going to--People getting their set images of the world, or set ways of thinking or whatever, you're the person who's always looking for the little something that's going to shift the way everything looks, that's going to turn the world upside down. Not for yourself, but for other people also. That's one of the services you perform for your friends; shaking up their worldview periodically, which is nice.

LB: What was I going to say? Oh, you can short circuit periodically. That's all. It's another one of those stress yourself out of line, but it's really good that you're doing stuff like meditation or whatever, because there is this-- It can make you high strung after a while if you thrive on that explosive intellectual stuff to the point where you can burn. You can get yourself very frazzled if you're forever looking for the new thing to shake it all up, and you can just get real tired doing it.
GA: I was an insomniac for a long time.
LB: That's perfect. Yes, because Uranus transits, one of the major signs of Uranus transits is insomnia, when people are having real transits--
GA: Wow.
LB: I didn't even know this, when I had my chart done, I was having some strange Uranus transits at the time, and she said-- I had not said a word to her, but she said, "Having trouble sleeping lately?" She blew my mind. For the first time in five years, really having very heavy duty insomnia, and it was that. That and skin things. Like really strange little skin rashes is another Uranus transits thing. It's very hyper. It could be a little jittery when you get a little too much of it. Anyway, so there's that.

LB: Exactly. It's like this very internal thing. I'm not even aware of it, but it's very much rooted in me, this Uranian energy. It's also conjunct my Venus. I would do things like solve a math problem in my head in about 10 seconds that if I was to sit down and try and figure out the answer to, it would take me four hours. I even did that with astrology a lot, of like, "I'll figure something out." I'll have just an insight, a flash of, "Oh, this is X," and I'll say that, and then I'll get panicked about it, because I have no excuse for that answer. Then I'll go back and I'll track that, and I'll come out with the same answer four hours later, but that's very fast, non-linear intellectual stuff. Yes, it's [unintelligible 00:18:53].
GA: I have that with people. Like I'll see people, and I'll put two and two together, but in a way that is not like addition, you know?
LB: It's interesting because lots of times, you'll see like one or the other of the outer planets, which are the ones that have to do with psychic stuff. With you, you've got both-- Your Pluto isn't all that strong in the chart, but you have both the Neptune and the Uranus are very strong, very focal, important planets so that your psychic stuff is coming in two different-- There's two different major sources of it. One of them is that real oceanic, Neptuneian, empathic connection, which is very non-intellectual in any of the traditional senses of intellectual. It's totally feeling a spiritual non--It's very little to do with your mind than any traditional-- Or it's totally right brain kind of mind, if anything. It's connected with the mind at all. It's all the right side. Uranus is more of a traditional intellectual kind of thing, but it doesn't work linearly at all. It's not that kind of thing, it's a flash. Those are two very different kinds of spiritual energy.
GA: I have this problem that I always want to verify these flashes. It slows them down. I should trust them.
LB: Although for you, there's some value to that. You should trust them, but there's also a thing of-- Well, I'll get to that when I get to your notes, of real education and grounding of some of your psychic stuff is really important. That's not a substitute for trusting the psychic stuff. It's like the two of them should go together, of that sort of training and education, and then just doing it. They work together very well. It's not like you should play them off each other. Either you know it or you have this insight into it. It's the two of them work together. [unintelligible 00:21:01]
GA: I see.

LB: That one's that. Now where else am I? [unintelligible 00:21:16] that's so nice. Meg has [unintelligible 00:21:20].
GA: So does me.
LB: Yes, right. In the last couple years, I had never known anyone with-- Oh, that's actually Frankie [unintelligible 00:21:30]. I don't even know [unintelligible 00:21:35] it's some more of your quickness than your-- It's more visionary stuff in a particular way. It's like your ascendant-- Somebody described to me once I thought was nice, if you think of your Sun [unintelligible 00:21:55] move to some extent, but especially your Sun as being the contents of a bottle, that ascending is the neck and its particular channeling of your Sun.
It's like the Sun is the basic energy and it's like your ascending is almost like your style of expressing that, or your preferred style of expressing it. If you had your way, this is how you would go about expressing your Sun. It's not so much an internal part of your personality. It's much more your style. It has very much to do with action in the world.
GA: I like that analogy of the bottle.
LB: I think it works. See, it's not all that much different for the rest of your chart if you've got a lot of fire, air, and stuff. Anyway, in Meg it's very obvious because the rest of her-- She's a Capricorn, and a lot of the playfulness that would never be there usually in a Capricorn is the [unintelligible 00:22:51]. With you, it's not that different from the other elements in your chart. There's a particular fastness to it. There's also a real concern within quality of ethics or value systems having a lot to do with how you want to express yourself. That's some focus and what you want to be doing in the world. There's a real sense of tie everything that's going on into your belief system. You don't want things scattered all over the place.
GA: I don't.

LB: There's a real sense of wanting to fit it into how you see the world as a whole or how you feel like the world should be as a whole. That becomes a crucial part. First, I'll talk about your Saturn and I'll talk about your T Square Sun. [unintelligible 00:23:59] in your notes about the placement of your moon space.
Your Saturn in the seventh. Saturn is always a heavy-- It's also the teacher. I think there's this really wonderful book on Saturn, by the way, if you want a really nice astrology book. Have you ever seen this book, which is called Saturn? It's by a woman named Liz Green.
GA: Yes. I've seen it. I should read that.
LB: It's excellent. It's really excellent. Anyway, Saturn is the teacher and it's like a lot teaching through pain. The thing we're talking about, this is a lot-- That's what Saturn is about a lot. It's teaching through restriction of-- It depends a lot on the aspects to it and whatever, but to some extent always Saturn is a lot about where the blockages are, where you hold back. Saturn is also about how you define yourself, in a way that to some extent is very necessary to survive in the world and to some extent becomes a limit, especially when you're starting to get into spiritual stuff. There's a lot of stuff of getting past Saturn and undoing your-- It's like Sun and Saturn are like two different facets of ego in a way.
Sun is the sense of the self-expressive. It's the [unintelligible 00:25:36] sort of expansive, the heart and all that of that sort of very ego-centric but in a generous kind of a way, of your rootedness in yourself and your sense of purpose and all that stuff. Saturn is your ego in the sense of how you define your limitations of, "This is what I am," as opposed to something else. It's like you define yourself in a negative kind of a way, is Saturn, and it's a lot about structure and crystallization. It's like people have problems with Saturn have arthritis a lot and things like that. Just this real structure, rigidity thing.
GA: Well, had a little bit of being in here, but it's gone now.
LB: Good. Unless you're working with your Saturn [unintelligible 00:26:20]. [laughs] It's like the other part of ego in a way of like, you define yourself by defining what you're not or where your restrictions are or whatever. It's blockages. Where you stopped yourself.

LB: I can never quite figure out what I think about this stuff, because I'd be a Cancer, and I really don't feel like a Cancer to myself. [unintelligible 00:03:06] I don't see you as much of a Virgo, either, although there's Virgo in your chart. Anyway. Also, you're very little fixed. It's mostly mutable, which is the Sag. Mutable or calm. There's two different ones. [unintelligible 00:03:29] that there's four different elements, then there's three different modes, they're called. There's cardinal, fixed and mutable. You're mostly cardinal and mutable. The only thing that's fixed in the entire chart is Pluto and Leo, and everybody born anywhere around us had Pluto and Leo. It's a generation thing, it's not very specific to you.
Which does mean that you have a tendency to have trouble sticking with things over the long haul, sometimes. On the other hand, it means that you don't tend to get real rigid around things. You have lots of initiative. The initiative is the cardinal, and that's the real-- The people who always start things off usually have a cardinal [unintelligible 00:04:20] within whatever element it falls in, its the beginning of that. It's sort of like the springtime of that particular element or the beginnings of figuring out what that stuff means. With you it's Ares, cardinal fire.
GA: Yes, I've got about six books that I'm working on. [laughs]
LB: Yes. They always have great ideas and tons of initiative and just go out there and they'll start anything, and they're very fearless, usually about going out there and doing it, but then they get bored.
GA: That's why I have [unintelligible 00:04:52] The novel, I started writing that in '74, and I'm still working on it. That's almost 10 years.
LB: Libra has that also, sort of initiative. It's in a different sphere, it's much more in social stuff. You make connections with people very easily, and you'll do that. Then you have a fair amount of emphasis on mutable with the Virgo. You have the Venus in Virgo and your midheaven in Virgo and Sag rising. The mutable is distributive. It's wanting to make the connections between everything, whichever element it's in.
While Sag, in particular, is a lot that way of making the connections between philosophical ideas. It's a lot more communication and sort of putting the stuff out there in a way. The cardinal is the initiation and then the fixed is the consolidating whatever that particular element is. Then you get to the mutable, which is spreading it around in the world. You're big on starting it and spreading it around the world, and you have a little bit trouble of just sort of [unintelligible 00:06:19] [crosstalk]--
GA: Yes, let somebody else finish it.
[laughter]

LB: [unintelligible 00:06:21] and sticking with it and that kind of stuff. That's the real basic, outlining system. All your planets are in one half, pretty much. This is more out-in-the-world focused, and this is much more of the introverted. Your moon is there, but a lot of, sort of your life is making connections with people. It's not about just purely probing your own psyche. It's a lot about putting it out there and honing structures in the world and making connections with people. Especially the 10th house thing, which will be good. There's more going in your 10th house than anywhere.
GA: The structures and stuff that I'm putting out, are they mental?
LB: Well, there's two things on that. There's all this 10 path stuff, and a lot of what you're putting out-- 10th house is-- In traditional astrology it's the house of the professional, meaning standing in community and that kind of stuff. In your case, it's more like a thing of making-- It's a lot about structures. It's the Capricorn house. It's the Saturn house, also. It's building structures in the world. It's a profession in the sense that you're building something. It's a real building house. There's some real need to do something in the world and to affect the world in some way. That's a real driving force, and your sun is there. Your sense of purpose, it's not enough for you to sort of be mountaintop figuring out, you know, whatever. There's something about needing to make some sort of-- To build something in the world. To build something that is useful to other people.
GA: I have this whole philosophy and this whole yoga, and this whole thing that I call El Mundo Zurdo which I want to present to the world, and I've been weaving it in and out of my autobiography, and the problem with the autobiography is all these connections that I want to make. [laughs]

LB: Yes, that makes sense. The ruler, in a way, of your 10th house is this Venus, which is right on. The midheaven is the cusp, or the the very beginning of the 10th house. It's sort of the focus point of all that stuff about how you-- It's interesting, because different people read midheaven in slightly different ways. The woman who did my chart last January has this thing about the midheaven. She thinks the midheaven as the most important place in the chart, much more important than the ascendant.
It's this particular kind of astrology [unintelligible 00:09:28] that I can't decide whether I agree with it or not. I can buy that to a certain extent, but she sees the midheaven as the symbol of where you fit, where you fall in the Earth or how you are related to the Earth as a planet and where you are in relation to this global community.
GA: Sort of like your destiny.
LB: Yes, but it's your location on this planet as opposed to just you as some sort of abstract. It's very where you are on the Earth, particularly. [unintelligible 00:09:55] as a point.
GA: That's very interesting.

LB: Yours, as well, it's in Virgo, and your Venus is right next to the midheaven. It's very close, one degree. That really colors how you think about all that. Your art, the making. It's art and it's a certain sort of looking for the beauty in whatever or looking for the harmony in whatever, and that the creation of beauty and of harmony and integration is absolutely crucial to how you see it. That's where you see your function in the world a lot, and that's the stuff you want to put out there. Sounds very--
GA: [unintelligible 00:10:36] You're right about the harmony.
LB: There's a real thing about balance. It's interesting, because Libra--There's all these connections back and forth. Your sun is in Libra, and the Venus, which is this real strong, absolutely focal planet in terms of all this stuff, is the ruler of Libra. Libra is a very social sign in some ways, and they are very into balance and they don't really like to fight and they don't like conflict a whole lot, but they're not wishy-washy at all. They're very feisty. They have a real strong sense of justice a lot of the time. They'd rather everything be in balance, but they can get just furious when somebody refuses to let that happen. Do you know what I mean? They can be really fierce fighters, and they would really rather not have to fight at all, but if it comes to that, you better watch out.
GA: I never get angry, but when I do people just run. [laughs] They don't want to be around.
LB: It's true. That's perfect Libra. They're very strong in a particular kind of way, but they'd rather everything be in harmony, but partly they'll fight for that. They'll fight for that to happen.

LB: There's a lot of stuff about your vision. Your intellectual vision is very much connected with that, and that's the issue that you're in some ways most intellectually interested in. That's the place that your communication is directed, is to this some vision of a community.
GA: Sí. Especially this past month when I've been doing a lot of meditating and a lot of affirmation is coming through, and I'm even getting some training in my sleep from the astroplanes. All this weird stuff is going on [laughs].
LB: Well, there's a lot of real strong visionary stuff in your chart, especially having this-- Well, let's go back to the 10th house thing. The sun conjunct Mars and Neptune thing is a very powerful little grouping of planets. Your sun essentially it's your ego, not in the sense they talk of in yoga of you need to get rid of your ego. It's not that. The sun's your sense of self in some very deep way.
GA: Is it the soul, the self?
LB: It's not even "the self," because your self is the whole chart. It's more like your conscious identity. It's more how you see yourself, how you see yourself very much in the world. It's a lot about will and sense of purpose and that kind of thing. Your moon is yourself also, but it's the less conscious, more emotional, reactive, emotional, less purposeful. The sun is like your sense of purpose. It's how you see yourself as an actor in the world. A lot to do with purpose and will [unintelligible 00:17:05] It's yourself. It's conscious identity. You need to be taking care of your sun stuff. If you're not taking care of your sun stuff you start feeling like you don't have any purpose in life.
GA: See, I get very--
LB: If you're not taking care of your moon stuff, you feel emotionally ungrounded, but it's a very different thing. It's stuff like you can feel very emotionally grounded and you're taking care of all your moon stuff or whatever, and feel totally listless in a way, because your sun is sometimes messed up at that [unintelligible 00:17:40] There's different aspects of yourself, but the conscious, identity purpose kind of thing is the sun.

GA: The woman who did the gnostic circle, she does that with the [unintelligible 00:19:08]. She does that with a-- You know?
LB: Oh, woah.
GA: Yes. You're going to like this book.
LB: Oh, that's so [unintelligible 00:19:14] Anyway, okay. This conjunction here are those three planets. Sun conjunct Neptune in itself is-- actually [unintelligible 00:19:29]. All three outer planets are in some ways mystical, spiritual stuff to them, but in very different flavors. Neptune is the real oceanic, at-one-with-the-world, complete loss of ego, that kind of spirituality. I mean it's ocean. That's all I can think of is ocean, and this real sense of being very much at one with everything and peaceful and also very prone to-- It's also a planet of illusion and just being lost in stuff and drugs. People who have screwed up Neptunes are way into drugs. When there's problems with your Neptune, there's a real problem dealing with reality, altogether.
GA: A large part of my life is like that.
LB: Yes. It's a very hard aspect that way. You have a vision of how connected everything is and of how it should be that way and how everyone should be feeling that. The fact that the world as you have to live it day to day is so far from that is so horrible that there's a real tendency to just withdraw into yourself and build your own fantasy world, because there's this incredible--You have a sense of such empathy with all the stuff around you. There's all the violence or the whatever or the horrible stuff that's going on in the world. It's just too much to deal with alongside that feeling of connectedness with everything.
GA: I can remember as a child feeling like that. I had to grow a thick skin.

Amy: Well, the first thing I want to talk about as far as your chart goes is the fact that you do have two major aspects in your chart. What that means is that when you were born Cherrié, at the moment of your birth there happened to have been the planet situated themselves in such a way that they actually formed these big shapes in the middle of the sky. To have one is not super unusual but it's not that common either, but to have two is considered highly unusual, and they're very important because they tend to color everything else in the chart.
You have both a T-square and a Yod, and the T-square is caused because you have two planets that were 180 degrees away from each other, so they formed this straight line, the red line. Then you had another planet that was 90 degrees from the other two, so it forms two right angles or a T shape in the middle of the sky. The T square gives you the feeling that if you just had X, everything in your life would fit together. However, X can be anything, Cherrié. That X could be a relationship, it could be money, it could be material object, it could be work, it could be the perfect body.
It could be the perfect mind, it could be anything and X can change. You can decide oh, oh, this is really X on Tuesday and then maybe by Thursday, you can say well I thought about it again and I realized that's not really X, this is X instead. If you do decide that a particular issue is X and you go off and you get it you really work at it, for a while it really does make you feel complete. After a while it really gives you the feeling of just like gee, this isn't quite right, it isn't quite working. You really feel oh I have to go off and I have to find something else to fulfill me.
It's really analogous to going around and looking for wall outlets. You find an outlet, and you plug your plug into it and the energy starts flowing through and you feel really great and then all of a sudden you short out. Of course, the most normal thing to do in that point is to pull your plug out of the outlet and to say, "Oh what a stupid outlet, it isn't working, I got to go find another outlet." What the T-square is saying is that you do have the short circuit inside of you. Now the short circuit is caused because you have an imbalance of energy.
Now you're not doomed to the short circuit. It's not saying to you, "Oh, well, tough luck, Cherrié, for the rest of your life you're going to be like this." It's saying no, okay there is an imbalance and you can write the imbalance. Now what the imbalance is depends upon the particular planets in the T-square. Now in your case, you have a special kind of T-square, because it doesn't just involve planets. It also involves these two points which are called the nodes. Now the nodes, are not really planets at all.
If you take the orbit of the earth around the sun, and then you take the orbit of the earth's moon around the earth, those orbits cross in two places. The intersection that faces north is the north node, and it points up, and it represents breaking away from past life karma. The intersection that faces down is the self node, and it represents getting sucked into past life karma.
CM: Great.

Amy: To have a T-square with the nodes first of all Cherrié it's telling you that this is an old energy. That this is something that you have been dealing with for lifetimes and lifetimes and lifetimes, and you finally get to it and say, "Okay this is it. I really have to deal with this energy." What the imbalance is about, is connected to these planets because your Pluto-- now Pluto rules transformation and power. It is conjunct, which means it's just totally together with right on top of your self node which is past life karma.
What this says is that in a past life, you were extremely powerful and you felt that your power was your work. It wasn't just powerful personally maybe you were in a situation where you had a lot of personal power, but outwardly nobody saw it. It's saying that you were outwardly known for your power and that you got very connected up to it because of the Leo in a very egoistic way. Instead of seeing yourself as a channel for the power, you really totally identified with this power and said, "Yes, this is who I am. I'm the power and what I want is right for everybody."
Now where's Leo? Because the south node and the Pluto are in the sign Leo, and the Leo indicates that it was a real ego attachment to that power. Now, you also have this energy square to 90 degrees away from the planet Jupiter. Now, Jupiter Cherrié is always a blessing except when it's in a square position, because in that case because Jupiter is expansion it represents over expansion. It represents something that once was good but has turned into too much.
Having Jupiter there square to the Pluto in the south node, that's the fact that you took on the power because you felt it was the right thing to do. You didn't start off saying, "Hey, wow, I want to have a lot of power. I'm just going to get in there and be incredible and have all this power and do whatever the hell I want." It's saying that you started off with very noble aspirations, but what happened is that the more power you got the more you liked it and the more it felt like hey this is pretty good.
All right, I must be pretty far out to have this power, and then the more you got in touch with it the more you wanted it, and the more you got blinded to what was the right balance the more you felt that you had to be the certain energy. Your north node is in Aquarius, and the north node is the breaking away from past life energy. In Aquarius, it says that you're breaking away is by seeing the truth that you're breaking through illusions. Now, the key here is that it's all illusions.
It's not just the illusion of power because you have really learned your lesson having a really packed 12-house. It's telling you that you've been dealing with this power issue for a lifetime. It's not like oh in your last life you blew it and now you have to be real careful about power. You've already seen the negative side of the misuse of power and been the victim now of a misuse of power. This has already happened to you. You don't have to see, "Oh gee, what is power? I can't use it blah blah blah."
In fact, in this lifetime you have to reconnect to the use of power. You have to really see that it is important for you to use this power, and yet what it's saying is you have to use the power with the light in the truth, and that this is a very intense energy for you. Quite naturally a part of you is scared shitless because you look at that power and it's like, "Oh, yes, I remember you. I remember what you were like, forget it I'm not here." Naturally with the T, you feel this incredible duality, because some of the time you feel like, "Who me, Cherrié? Oh no, not me. I don't know what you're talking about. What power? I got no power."
Yet at the same time, the people are there saying, "Oh, Cherrié she doesn't have any power.?" It's like, "What do you mean I don't any? Hey, listen, I have all this power and I got to use this power. Here I am." Then it's like, "Oh my God, what did I do?" "Oh, no. No, I was just kidding. Just kidding, folks. No, I don't have any power. No, no, no, no. Of course, I have power." It goes back and forth. There are some days in which you're right up there, you're right there looking straight into your destiny and saying, "Yes, this is who I am, and this is who I have to be." Other days you're just looking at that and saying, "Oh my God, I can't possibly accept this power. This is just much too scary. It's much too much. No, I can't deal with it."
It is this duality of saying, "Yes, I want it. No, I don't. Yes, I've got to have it. No, I can't." What you're trying to do is to find the perfect balance, is to be able to be a channel of that power, accept your power, but not feel that you have to take on too much of the power and not feel that you can't accept yourself as you truly are. It's a real connection to the truth inside of yourself. Yet at the same time, it's saying that you cannot possibly ignore this power. You must deal with it. That's a really important energy with the T.

Amy: Now every T-square has a point where it needs to balance because it is a T. There is no planet on the chart because if there was a planet, then you wouldn't have a T at all, you'd have a cross, which is a completely different energy. That missing planet is called the void. It is directly opposite the stem. Your stem is in Taurus. Your void then would be in Scorpio in the first house.
Now, the first house is the house of self-identity, and Scorpio is power. What this says is that the thing that you really need to do is to identify with the truth of your power. The truth that you are a divine warrior in this lifetime. I mean, you really have to be. There's lots of things that you have to get out there and confront that Cherrie and her Libra essence would rather not deal with it all.
Your Libras, there're going, "What? Me? Oh no, not me. I'm just sitting here spacing out." Whereas that Scorpio energy is right in there. It's going, "You are a divine warrior. You got to get out there. You have to clothe yourself in the truth. You have to hold the sword of truth and you have to communicate it. You have to be it." There's a lot of parts of you that are in there saying, "No, I don't want to look at this destiny because it hurts. Besides it's scary. Can't I just stay here and live in a little house on the ocean and not look at anything."
You're being told, "Uh-uh, Uh-uh, you got to get out there and confront." That's the thing that's really scary, is that sense of, "Oh, I've really got to get out there and confront. I've really got to get out there and deal with the energy." The other side of it is it says that you've got to really use that power that for many lifetimes you've been sitting on it and really saying, "I'm not ready, I'm not ready. I can't use it. I'll just blow it again. I'll blow it again." This lifetime, you're right there. It's like your divine energy has come right down to you and it's saying to you, "Okay, Cherrie, this is the time. This is it. You really have to use the energy. You cannot possibly ignore this."
You're finding yourself having to really deal with that energy, having to accept it in spite of yourself. Now, the fact that the Scorpio is in the void does not mean that you don't connect to Scorpios. As a matter of fact, what it says is that at times Scorpios can be incredible catalysts to your life. Because it's almost like their energy, especially if their sun or any planet that they have fits into the void. It's saying that then that energy really helps you to realize the T-square energy. Of course, Barbara is a Scorpio. I don't know if her son, I can't remember what the degree of her son is, so I don't know if it fits into this or not. Do you know what day she was born on-- November?
CM: I'm just forgetting. Oh, no. 17th.
Amy: 17th. There is a real good chance that her Sun would fit into this void. That would just be an interesting thing because it would say that in her very essence would help you to work out this T-square energy. That's just an interesting [crosstalk]
CM: Yes, makes sense.

Amy: That's the T-square. Now you also have a Yod. Now a Yod is a partially resolved T-Square. It's as if you've gotten a T-square and almost worked it out to completion, but just didn't quite manage to get it totally synthesized, like in another life. A Yod is called a Yod because actually Yod is the Hebrew letter for Y, and it is a Y shape. You've got two sets of planets that are 60 degrees away from each other. They form a 60-degree angle, then both of them are 150 degrees away from the stem point.
It's interesting that the stem point here is also Jupiter. Jupiter is the stem for both the T Square and the Yod. What this says is that you have to be really careful at pushing yourself too hard. It's like you've wanted to get through this karma so badly that you've almost decided in past lives that you were just going to burn straight through it. You had at least in one lifetime, I know of at least one in which you were just, ugh. You just decided, lay it on me Lord. It was just like, "Okay, I am just going to totally burn through this. I am not going to get stuck in this again." You did have, I don't know if it was your last lifetime or the lifetime for it but it was incredibly painful. It was very much involved in this intense victimization experience. Your death was a particularly incredibly horrible death where you died. You were raped and murdered in your death and it was just this incredible thing [crosstalk] to sustain. Pardon?
CM: I was saying, why does it feel so recent? Amy: Recent? [inaudible 00:21:16] I'm with you. CM: When you said that, it felt so recent. Amy: Oh, yes. It was so traumatic for your soul. Yet, see, the thing that was so intense about it is that in this really weird way, you engineered it because it was almost like you said, "Okay, that's it. Okay, maybe I victimized some people. Well, I'm just going to burn right through it. I'm just going to rip it off my soul because I'm not going to deal with this anymore." See, I feel like your misuse of power was probably a number of lifetimes ago and you started off dealing with it more intellectually, and you got very frustrated where you felt like, I have to get back to using this power. I can't stand being impotent and not being able to use the power. What you decided to do was to just sear it right off of you and you had this life. It was weird because it's almost like you didn't have to go through it. It's like you just got this thing in your head that you had to release the energy and it's like you couldn't realize that the way you had to release it was to forgive yourself. It was you couldn't forgive yourself. You were so tied into this idea that somehow you were really evil, that you couldn't just say, "Hey, look, just forgive yourself. Let it go." It was almost like in that lifetime, things just kept happening to you that were incredible. It was almost like one of those catastrophic lifetimes where you just could think, what next? How could something else happen to this woman? Yet you would just keep walking right into it. It was like, this isn't hard enough. This isn't heavy enough. I'm not going to be convinced that I'm released until I hit something really heavy. Finally, when you went into that death, it was about the heaviest thing that could possibly happen to you. It was like you just said, okay, this is what I have to go through and yet it was very intense because while you were experiencing it, then you got the truth. Then it was like, what are you doing? You don't have to go through this. Are you crazy? What it set up there Cherrie, is this real, almost like this intense self hatred because you felt like, "I can't believe I did this. Talk about stupid." Then in this lifetime, you have to forgive yourself doubly because not only do you have to forgive yourself for the misuse of power but you have to forgive yourself for your ultimate victimization. That in a way is the hardest because you really have forgiven yourself for the power.

Amy: Now, the other side of the Yod is that you've got Saturn, Neptune, and Venus all conjunct, which means that they were so close together in the sky, they just lined up together around the sun. It's one big, huge ball of energy. Now, this says a number of things. First of all, Saturn is karmic energy. Neptune is healing energy and spirituality and Venus's love energy. Now this does a lot of different things. First of all, one of the things that it does is it says that you really are working out still a lot of karma around relationships. In that past life, you really just close down your heart chakra.
You just said, "Oh, see, it was my heart that got me into this trouble. It was my heart that got me open to this energy. I've just got to really not put myself in that place. I've got to not put myself in that space." What you did is you just shut down your heart chakra and you just said, "Okay, that's it. No more." In this lifetime, you're reopening it. However, because of that incredible pain and hurt you sustained, you're not about to open your heart chakra easily.
In fact, lots of times you feel very dualized between the part of you that wants to experience the love and is there saying to you, "Now, Cherie, you've got to open up. You've got to open up." The part of you that say, "Are you crazy? I'm not going to open up. You've got to be out of your mind. I am not going to open up. I am not going to experience this energy. I refuse to." Yet at the same time, the real sense of, "No, you've really got to open up this energy. You've really got to experience this love that's inside of you."

Amy: Now one of the things that's going to help a great deal is the fact that because your Venus is conjunct to your Neptune very closely. You have what's known as a soulmate or a karmic mate. This is a person that you have been involved with in past lives in many different ways. You may have been her lover, you may have been even enemies, or parent and child, or teacher and student, or siblings, or colleagues, or all kinds of things, and in this lifetime, you come together with the potential to be one with each other on all levels, mentally, physically, psychically, sexually, emotionally, spiritually, every single level you can think of, you have the ability to be one with this person.
However, there is no way to tell if someone is your soulmate by what sign she is, by what the person looks like, by what they do, by when you meet this person. There is no way to tell by any external means. The only way to tell when a person is your soulmate is by the fulfillment of different indications. There are also ways to tell because this relationship is not a lot of things. It is definitely not in any way, shape, or form an abusive relationship. It cannot possibly be an abusive relationship. It is also not in any way, shape, or form a relationship that does not allow you to be your true self. This person has got to totally support you in your true destiny, just as you must support her in her true destiny.
Now one of the indications is the fact that you find you cannot separate from this person, literally, physically. No matter how much you try to be apart, there is some greater force than yourself bringing you together so that you find that you can meet this person and maybe at first you don't feel a big thing. Maybe you meet this person at a party or a bar or a conference or a meeting or something like that and you might feel like, "Oh." Somehow you're going to keep connecting to this person. It's like, "Look, Cherie, this is the person. This is it," which is why you can never meet the person and then do nothing and then someday wake up when you're 85 and in the middle of the night and say
CM: She is the one. [crosstalk]-
Amy: -"Oh my God, it was that birth and then I blew it." It's not like that. You get chance after chance after chance, which is why even if you're together and you feel like, "Oh, fuck, I don't want to deal with this." Forget it. You find that you've got to be there. You've got to work it out together. The second qualification is the fact that you are willing to put more into this relationship than any other relationship you have ever experienced. This relationship forces you to go beyond your own ego and your own sense of self and it's mutual. You are both working out this relationship energy, so it's not like you can't do it. It's like you are forced to deal with it. You are forced to do it. You find that in spite of yourself, your head might be going, "No way, Cherie, why should you work it out? Forget it. You are not going to work it out," and your heart is saying, "You get in there and you work it out. You are not about to not work it out." You find that you cannot help but work out the relationship. You find that you cannot help but deal with this relationship in a complete way.
CM: It's terrifying. [laughs]
Amy: I know it is.
CM: Just saying.
Amy: It is. The third qualification is the fact that the relationship itself follows a certain pattern. First, there'll be a plateau and everything will be very nice and very easy and very lovely. Little by little, it builds up to some kind of crisis point. Now it might be your crisis, it might be the other person's crisis, it might be internal, it might be external, but it's some kind of crisis point. You find that the more you're able to work out the crisis point, the more able you are to love each other, to be together, to experience oneness with each other. Then it goes to another plateau until it builds up to another crisis point. The amount of time between the crisis points depends upon the couple.
For some couples, it's every two minutes, and for other couples, it's every five years. It just depends on what it is that you're working out. The fourth qualification is the fact that you find it's really difficult to explain why you love this person. You can't explain it. It goes beyond explanation. Cause you feel like, "I love her because she's so-- No, that's not it. It must be because she's-- No, that's not it. I think it's because of-- No, that's not it." You find that you just cannot possibly explain it. It's just, it's so deep. It feels so intense inside of yourself. You cannot explain it in any way, shape, or form. It's a really deep energy. All you can do is really trust that energy and know that this is exactly the right energy for you.

Amy: What the soulmate indication does is it guarantees that you will meet this person. What you do after that its up to you. It doesn't say, "Oh, and you'll live happily ever after." You still have to work out the relationship. Obviously, for you, it's a very intense energy because you do have a real struggle opening up your heart. Obviously, this person is definitely going to open up your heart, and she is not going to allow you to close down. The other thing is that it's really forcing you to let go of pain around relationship. It's forcing you to work out sexuality, and it's forcing you to open up to the truth inside of yourself. It's forcing you to say, "Yes, this is who I really have to be. I can not be anybody else."
Now the other thing it says is that with the Saturn conjuncture Neptune that in this lifetime, you really have to use your healing energy in your work. Of course, you can only do that when you experience love in your heart, and that you really have to experience a deep openness and a deep energy inside of yourself, and that you just have to know that this is the truth, that you have really got to experience the truth inside of yourself. You've really got to experience the knowledge that you are a healer in this lifetime and that you're really meant to use the love that you're feeling from other people to learn to love yourself, to learn to forgive yourself.
The key here is self-forgiveness, it is self-acceptance, and it's the knowledge that all you can do is really, really be open to this truth. All you can do is really, really be open to what you know is true inside of yourself. Now Saturn, Neptune, and Venus are sextile the moon and Mars. This is interesting because then Venus is sextile the Mars, which is the union of the so-called male-female energy. It does say that when they work together, you feel a real sense of completeness and openness inside of yourself.
Then these are both in conjunct to Jupiter, which says that at times you feel a real duality between that really active part of you, the real so-called male aggressive, active, powerful part of you, and then the real victimization part of you so that what you're trying to do is to switch energy. You're trying to get the male energy part of you to experience nurturing, to experience love, to experience hope, to experience transformation. You're trying to get the female part of you to stop being the victim because that female part of you still really identifies with the victim. You need to get her to feel strong, to feel strength to power, aggression, all the things that you want to feel. You're switching the energy.
That's what the Yod is talking about is the real switch of energy will allow you to release yourself from that duality because it says at times, you really experience that duality, and it is very confusing to you. Here you are, one day, you can be so strong and so aggressive and totally like, "No, I do not experience this pain inside of myself." Then the next day, you can just totally fold in on yourself and experience real victimization.
It's very confusing to you because you feel like, "What is going on?" Of course, then too, you're giving real mixed messages to people. Both I'm invincible, I am strong, and I'm the complete victim. Then you're feeling like, "What the hell? What kind of credibility do I have that I'm expressing both of these energies?" Yet they're both there because they're both a part of you. What you're trying to do is to give power to the victim and give compassion and love to the assertive part of you so that both of them experience a synthesis and a connection inside of yourself, and that's a really strong work that you're experiencing at this time. [chuckles]
CM: I know it's so much.
Amy: I know it is. [crosstalk] We've just scratched the track. I know. I feel like I just go and do it and I feel like, [unintelligible 00:51:21] Excavation.

CM: I know it's not hardly any time, so I'm not saying much, but it's wonderful to hear what you're saying. It's very painful. [crosstalk]
Amy: I know it's painful.
CM: -but it's wonderful to have it said back to me.
Amy: It's almost like you have to release the pain. It's painful because it's like opening up a wound to the air, and yet it's the only way you're going to heal it. That's the other thing I wanted to say. See because you feel such a need to be powerful, you feel a lot of shame about the victim, and that's the thing that's really maybe the most detrimental because you can't see yourself in shame. She herself felt an incredible amount of shame. It's just that myth. It's that thing of, well, if a woman gets raped, and if a woman gets heard, it's because she asked for it.
CM: It's also very Catholic and very Mexican, both of which I am. All the stuff that you're saying, for me, it's just is so cultural too. Women are thought of particularly around sexuality, so it's just like the clicks are phenomenon.
Amy: It's the kind of thing where you felt, so there's that real deep, deep, deep little well of shame in there that when you start feeling like, "Hey, I am a really strong woman. I'm an incredible person. I am a divine warrior." That little voice goes, "Oh yes. Well, I'll tell you another thing. You are a real complete, total fucked up person. You were victimized to prove it. On top of it sweetheart, it's going to happen again."
It's that thing too. "Don't let anybody get too close," because that goes right into the lover thing. Here, if there's a person who really loves you and a woman who really wants to give to you and really wants to totally accept you, then that voice comes up and says, "Oh yes, she's going to accept your shame, too." It's that feeling of like, "I can't let her in. I can't let her close because if she sees she'll be repulsed." She'll just look at you and go, "Oh, [unintelligible 00:53:39]. How can I love that?" There's that hedge. It's that little wall you put around yourself and say, "Oh no, oh no." It feels very virtuous because it feels like, "Well, I'm doing it for your own good."
It's like, "I know I'm a shamed woman, so I can't let you share my shame." Yet it's so bullshit. As you said, it's so cultural. It's what we women have been experiencing for centuries. eons. Also coming from where you've come from with the Catholicism and with the Mexican culture and then putting it on top of all the karma, it's right there, and yet what this is saying is that you've just got to break through it. It's really important for you to realize that you cannot feel ashamed of yourself. See, what happens is then it gets twisted, and you start feeling ashamed of the power.
Instead of feeling like, "How can I be ashamed of being a victim? Hey, this is something I bought into, and I'm not going to buy into it anymore." Then what happens is that voice says, "Oh, and you should be ashamed of the fact that you're powerful too. What about all the women who aren't powerful?" How dare you? How dare you rub their faces in it? Then you feel like, "Oh God. Nothing really that terrible and horrible and disgusting has happened to me and I somehow escaped in this lifetime." Well, it should happen to me, so I should feel ashamed that it hasn't happened to me as fully as it could."
It's really getting you both coming and going. That's why it's so important for you to really release the shame and really allow yourself to feel good about the fact that you are protected, that you are meant to be a warrior, that you are meant to experience that power, and that you do not have to be victimized ever again in this lifetime. You will not be victimized ever again if you choose not to be. That's a really important karmic lesson for you.

Amy: Okay. The reason why this is coming up so strongly now is that you are starting about a six-year cycle. That is a very important cycle for you. It's like you started it actually years ago. You started it about four years ago. You started this very important Saturn experience, and then you had a respite. You had a rest for about a year, and now you're starting it again.
First Saturn in the sky as you know is continually moving. You happen to have all this stuff back to back. As you can see, you have so many planets right here. Now what happened is that you have Saturn, it passed over your 10th house. The 10th house is the house of work, and Saturn rules work.
When Saturn passes through the 10th house, it says then that you really are experiencing a real need to deal with your work energy. That was happening, I think it was around '78. Let me just check. It started at 11 degrees of Leo. You started experiencing it starting in September of '76, actually. You started experiencing it. It continued until September of '79. That was over a three-year period. Then you had a little bit of a respite. Then starting last September, so September of 1980, you started experiencing it again very intensely, and you will continue experiencing it for quite a while.
CM: Now, is that specifically around work again, or this is something [crosstalk]?
Amy: No, now it's something else. Okay? Now what you're experiencing is a number of things because first of all, you have your sun in Libra. You also have Saturn in Libra, and you have your ascendant in Libra. I know you have your ascendant in Scorpio, excuse me, but your 12th house is ruled by Libra. Whenever Saturn passes over the sun or Saturn or the 12th house, it creates a very deep experience. Now your sun is in the same sign as your Saturn and your Saturn is in your 12th house. It's like having three different cycles all back to back, all affecting you all at the same time. That's a very intense energy for you. [crosstalk]
CM: It started in September?
Amy: It started in September. Now what it does is it affects you on all these different level. First of all, it affects you with your sun. What it says is that you are then having to confront all of your own limitations at this time, and you really have to deal with all the limitations that you create inside of yourself. Also, you're in your Saturn return, and the Saturn cycle affects you in a lot of different ways.
First of all, one of the ways it affects you is that it really forces you to really let go of your childhood and to accept your adult energy so that all of a sudden, you, Cherrie, are learning to be an adult in a total way. Now what that means is that you're empowering yourself. You're really accepting your power and your identity on a whole new level, on a level that you have never experienced before. It's saying then that you really need to deal with a lot of different issues with your Saturn cycle.
The first issue is the issue of letting go of your childhood, which means that all of a sudden, all these things that you have really associated with your childhood. All the things that you haven't felt ready to deal with, you really have to deal with now. It's really connecting and confronting that energy. Really being able to look at it, really being able to say, "Yes, this is something that I really have to deal with. This is something that I really have to connect to. This is something that I really have to confront inside of myself." Now the second thing that's going on with this is the realization that you also then have to deal with your work.
One of the ways that we decide whether a person is an adult or not is by their work, which is why obviously for so long women were never considered adults. [chuckles] You are really looking at your work now and deciding what you're going to do with it. You've got three choices. Either what work you've been doing so far isn't your true work, and now that you're in your Saturn cycle, you have to let go of it, and you have to accept your true work, or you've just been doing something that was really right for you, and it was your true work, but now it's changing, and you're accepting a new energy because you're now going to another level, or what you've been doing has been your true work, but now you're really broadening it and extending it and experiencing it on a whole new level.
It's saying that it's very, very, very important for you to really get in touch with experiencing that transformational energy and knowing that now is a time for you to let go of your past and to really accept your future. You do this in a number of ways. First of all, the first step in the Saturn cycle is figuring out what you really don't want. It's almost as if you're in there cleaning out your psychic closets and you're saying, "Okay, well, I don't need this anymore and I don't need this anymore and I don't need this anymore. I really don't need to let go of this energy. I don't need to hold onto this energy. I can let go of it. I am going to let go of it, and I'm really going to accept a new energy deep inside of myself."
The next step is figuring out what you really do want. That's harder because it comes in dribs and drabs. It's learning how to be quiet enough and open enough to accept that energy. It's learning how to say, "Oh, okay, I've really got to learn how to accept this energy. I've really got to be open to accepting this truth inside of myself and knowing that this is exactly the right energy for myself."
It's slowly and surely getting in touch with the energy and learning how to be open to that energy in a really good way. Now the third thing that happens with the Saturn cycle is because the etheric body of adulthood, consciousness of adulthood is actually connecting to your real physical body. You're really changing your connection to other people who used to be adults to you. Your connection to your parents can change because they're no longer your parents. It's like you are now an adult. You are peers now.

Amy: One of the things that happens in the Saturn Cycle is you come face-to-face with your own mortality because children never die. Children don't die. Even when they're dying, they don't die. It's because they don't have a real sense of their mortality, but adults die. All of a sudden, now, you're really confronting that mortality, and you're grieving for the loss of your childhood. It's really easy in your Saturn cycle to experience a great deal of grief, and you've just got to let it come right through you. Also, you're grieving for the death of your parents no matter what shape your parents are in. Whether they're alive or not, whether they're healthy or not, you're going to grieve for their death because they're no longer your parents.
You realize that you are an adult, they're adults, they are dying. That's a real intense energy for people to deal with. Another thing that happens is that you really have to deal with your own insecurity because being in your Saturn cycle, it's really, really easy to feel insecure. It's that feeling of like, "Oh, everything's changing. I'm in a kaleidoscope now. I want everything to be the same. I want everything to be secure, and yet, somehow it isn't." One of the things you're really working on is you're really allowing yourself to break through that insecurity. You're really, really allowing yourself to know what it is that you have to do.
You're really being able to say, "Okay, I know that what it is that I have to do is really accept the truth inside of myself. I know that what I have to do is really be able to know that my only security is my truth, is my destiny, and I can't try to pin it on anything else." It is an insecure time. It is a painful time, but it's also a time of releasing the past and accepting your true identity.
Now the fact that Saturn will soon be moving through your 12th house. Right now, it's still in your 11th house. It's a little bit of a respite, and it will start getting into your 12th house. Let's see, it has to hit 13 degrees. It'll be in your 12th house by your-- let's see, is it by [unintelligible 01:05:55]? No, it's by next October. It's October of '81. It'll go back into your 12th house.
Starting in October of '81, you're going to feel as if circumstances are forcing you to release negative energy, to release your limitations. It's almost as if this really strong force comes down into you and takes this really high-powered flashlight, and is looking in all the corners and under the bed and in the closets and saying, "Okay, now you got to really deal with this shit. You've got to really deal with this shit," yet it affects you outwardly, externally.
As an example, one person I knew who was going through this. Her lover was someone she really didn't want to be with yet she was really holding onto it because she didn't want to hurt her lover's feelings. Then when Saturn was in her 12th house, her lover said, "I don't want to be with you anymore." At first, of course, the woman was feeling really frustrated and really angry.
Then she realized what a fool she was. It was like, "Oh God, I feel relieved." This is what you really wanted. It's that kind of energy where sometimes things happen, and yet when they happen, at first, you might feel a real frustration or a real anger, but then you realize it's exactly what you want it to happen. It's this thing of like, "Oh, I'm so pleased. I'm so thankful that this happened. Now I don't have to carry it anymore."
Realize it's starting in October of '81, you will be going through this period of time in which external circumstances are forcing you to grow, and yet you know that that is the best thing that could happen to you. You realize that all the things that are happening, they're the things that you really wanted to happen, and yet at the time, it might feel very scary to you and might feel very difficult to you. It's really getting in touch with accepting that energy and knowing that that is absolutely the right thing and that you really can accept it-
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CS: [inaudible] left-handed?
GA: See, the part of me that predominates is the right brain. You know, whichever palm you put over first when you do like that? Okay you’re left-brained–I mean–you’re a right-handed person. I’m a left-handed person even though I write with my right hand.
CS: And when you grab for something, do you grab with your left hand?
GA: Um, up until it broke. I was doing most of the things with my left hand but then I broke this arm so then I started doing things with this right hand.
CS: So would you tell me that you’re left handed or right handed?
GA: Right now I’m right handed but naturally I’m ambidextrous. When I was little…
CS: When you were born, when you were born were you left-handed?
GA: Yes… I think I was.
CS: This is your left hand?
GA: This was in a cast so it's a little more wrinkled. But why don’t you read my right hand since that’s what I am now? They’re very different, no?
CS: Well the thing is that whichever hand you use is the hand that is the manifestation of your life as you're living it.
GA: mmhmm I’m right-handed.
CS: Your left hand, or your other hand--the hand that you use less--is a reflection of the potentials and the dynamics that you needed to work out in this life. For example, let's say it's your left hand. What’s written on your left hand is the markings of your spirit, the things that your spirit needed to work out, the things that your spirit wanted to work out. It’s a marking of the progression you’ve made up until this point–your spirit has made up until this point. The markings on your right hand, or the hand that you use the most, is the marking–marks the progression that you’ve made in this life.
GA: Okay do it on the left.
CS: Left being what you came in with…
GA: Yes
GA: And this is what I am now.
CS: Okay…

CS: Um, you came into the world with a spirit-self that was very emotional–that required, that very much needed to have an emotional dependence on the family that it was raised with. I mean there was like something that you needed to work out. You had known about emotional dependence with the family to be raised with. There’s something there that you needed to work out. Previously you have been emotionally dependent, and there had been a lot of trauma and anguish, you might say.
GA: Previous to this lifetime?
CS: Previous to this lifetime. And your relationships with your family in your early childhood are…were such that there was stuff that, you know, you needed to work out.
GA: See, I think there was a whole lot of stuff between me and my mother, me and my father.
CS: And…that in this lifetime instead of there being the kind of, hmm…let’s say, the anguish of your early life, emotional life, affected your life and affected your health in the past. In this life you were able to make some kind of breaks away from your sibling, your life, your mother, your father, your sisters your brothers your uncles your aunts, those that you were raised with as a child. You have made breaks of…. They have forced you–or– you have become more independent. Um, you..it was like a forcible…through an act of will you have been able to become more independent as I’m reading this. See but this…I wonder if I should be reading this in this manner… See your fate line is coming in here. Now if we were reading your hand the other way around, I would say that– See my mother knows how to do this better than I do.
GA: You’re doing fine!

CS: Okay well, your fate line shows on your right hand--Is this your right hand?
GA: Yes.
CS: It shows an independence of will you might say.
GA: mmhmm, I’m very willful.
CS: But your left hand shows even more of an independence of will. And not only that, it shows that you have had a destiny that has affected the lives of many other people up until this point. And it looks like this is right at the point that you’re at right now. I mean, I don’t know which hand is the present hand, you know what I mean, cause you say you’re ambidextrous. Um- it's so weird. This hand is so weird 'cause, um-it shows--this shows a very strong will power. A very strong creation of one’s own destiny. Not like, if this line here were coming from this side here and coming up like mine does, this shows a life that is very much determined by other people. The whims of others or the desires of others–that sort of thing, But this shows a creative willpower–act of will which is carving out your destiny. And it also shows a destiny which is um…. Which is having a great influence on other people’s lives. I mean this is about, shows the life of [inaudible] Someone in their thirties, late thirties. But this…
GA: So you think this might be…
CS: What you came into the world with.
GA: And this is what I’ve made of it?
CS: mmhmm [inaudible] [GA and CS are talking at the same time]

GA: Well, the way that, the last person that read my palm, she had me go like this and she says that the left hand predominates so this is the one that you read now and this is what I came in with.
CS: Shall we do it that way?
GA: Okay.
CS: Okay, so if we do it that way, it shows that you had, let’s see…that you have an independence of spirit. You came in with more of an independence of spirit, although stuff to work with your–you had stuff to work out with your family that you came into the world with, but that there was this independence of spirit there. You had not lived a kind of life which had had a great effect on the lives of other people. Maybe you had been doing growth in your own on yourself, so now in this life you have had a very emotionally heavy relationship with your mom and your dad.
GA: Yes. Very heavy.
CS: I mean even more so, you have not been able– you have a very emotionally dependent relationship with those that you were raised with, let’s say that.
GA: Sí

GA: Okay, now we come to your process. This represents your inner process. The inner process is the three of--
SG: Trumps.
GA: The Empress. It's a trump card. Your outer environment, your outer process, the outer world is represented by the twelfth, the hanged man. Another trump. Okay, so let's take your inner. Again, they're balanced because two and one makes three.
SG: [chuckles]
GA: If you draw a card like the tower, and then you draw the chariot, they're complements of each other. Because six and one makes seven. There are cycles in the tarot, numerologically, in astrology, astrologically, there are definite cycles, and this is one cycle. Okay, what you don't deal with in your Empress energy or year comes up in your hanged man year. Everybody goes through a growth year every year. Jane is going through the 10–What was it that I told you, the Wheel of Fortune?
SG: mmhmm
GA: The growth year that you're going through with-- Okay. Okay, you're going through a two-year, the High Priestess, which is another lesbian card.
SG: mmhmm
GA: In your growth year, what you're trying to do is you're trying to balance your independence. People are making demands on you, and they're not giving you your space. The tendency during that year is to either walk out, withdraw, leave. It's either withdraw or leave. A lot of times you probably are gonna feel like doing that. Yes. Also, it's a year where you get in touch with your intuition and your receptivity.
SG: When is that? This, this—
GA: This growth year that you started in, at the time of your birthday, it's going to go from--
SG: The 15th, how about that?

GA: From your birthday to your birthday, you're in a really good space because it's the High Priestess. The karma for that year, the two karma, which is my karma, is being attentive to detail, being of service to others, being organized, efficient, and all the things I'm not. [laughs] It's my karma.
SG: You're kidding.
GA: That's the year you're going to have to get on top of that. How much time can you allow? Okay, and here's where the Empress comes in. The Empress is the card, the energy that says, okay, how much am I going to put out? How much am I going to take in? It's the card of giving and receiving. If you overextend, you get in this position, the hangman. If you underextend, the same thing happens. The thing to look for is your love nature. When you give, are you giving out of the goodness of your heart and out of altruistic feelings? Or are you giving like a bargaining, like a merchandising? I'll give you this much if you give me this much. I will love you this much if you love me this much. This is to watch it. You don't make love to a bargain or merchandise. The Empress is the card of symbolizing the fertility of nature. He comes into you. She's sort of like Venus, Aphrodite, that image, love, but also harmony and balance. Let me see. Nurturing. A lot of nurturing. See the little birds down there?
SG: Yes.
GA: Do you think that's a pelican?
SG: I'm not sure, it could be I think. It doesn't have a lot of--
GA: The symbol for the pelican was the mother cutting open her breast to feed her little bird's blood. It was like this nurturing, almost like. You've got to be careful when you get into nurturing.
SG: That's very good advice. Very good.
GA: A lot of green. The green is like fertility, creativity. There are a lot of magnetic lines. Magnetic lines are curved, feminine. Vertical lines are more aggressive, more masculine, dynamic. My teacher Angie Arrien doesn't like to use feminine and masculine, so she uses dynamic and magnetic. It's the same truth.
SG: Dynamic is the masculine thing? isn't that interesting.
GA: Just a lot of curved lines. Look at the way she holds her arms.

SG: I'm eating all your sunflower seeds. I hope that's all right.
GA: Oh, I've got plenty more. The business about the Empress is pretty much like the traditional--
SG: What you've said is very good. What you've said is very good. The business about organizing is particularly good.
GA: The number two karma?
SG: Yes, right, all that. Yes.
GA: There's like moon, the crescent moon, symbolizing the feminine.
SG: And the business of watching my sacrificial energy.
GA: Yes.
SG: Good.
GA: Yes, because you'll end up over here like a sacrifice.
SG: This is the sacrifice, right?

Sally Gearhart: So this is one? Turn it over?
Gloria Anzaldua: Yes. That represents your interaction with Jane. Turn that over. Oh, this represents how you see Jane. This card represents her. This is great. This represents your karmic link or why you came together, what you have to learn from each other. They're beautiful. This represents your career and creativity, the receptivity. Beautiful. This is your decision-making processes, delegating duties and all that. God, you don't have any problems in that respect. The inner environmental process and the outer.
SG: Turn this one over?
GA: It doesn't really matter. In this case reverse just means that there's a greater focus on the card. It's beautiful. This is your outer environment you work with. This represents yourself, your total self in relation to all these questions and who you are and how you see yourself. Beautiful. This is your test, your lesson. What you need to breakthrough or--
SG: With swords! Ten!
GA: That's one negative card out of the whole bunch. Now the last one is the outcome card. Wow. First of all a general look at the cards, you have one, two, three, four, five trump cards. That's very unusual. Trump cards are gifts to you. Even the hangmen their energies had come to you. The royalty you have, one, two, three. The royalties are the cards that represent actually doing and acting on things. The minor arcana are potentials. Things that you can act on. These people really act on them. The queens and the princesses or defenders. The frontal people they face you, they defend. The knights and the princesses are hunters, the more aggressive kind. In your deck there are knights in the Waite deck but there're not any princesses.
SG: That's right.
GA: There're just kings, so you have to make the transition. The negative card represents thoughts or self-rule, that what you do is, you do a mental trip on yourself. The outcome card is the card of synthesis of arcana.
SG: mmh–Look at it. Amazing.

GA: This card represents Jane to you, or how you see Jane.
SG: [laughs].
GA: This is the card of the hierophant, and it's the card of teaching and learning. Especially around occult mysteries. Do you know what her birthday is by any chance?
SG: Yes. April 14th.
GA: Okay. January. February. March. April 14 of what year?
SG: 1941.
GA: Ooh, she's a lovers too, like you.
SG: Is she?
GA: I was wondering. I was trying to see may-- Because some people in their numerology. For example, I'm a double lover, but in my numerology, I have two double sevens and a double nine, the hermit and chariot. Sometimes people are in a growth year that is erected to this card. The number five, or that five years ago, something happened between the two of you.
SG: It was our-- Yes, exactly [laughs]. That's wonderful. That's very fun. Very fun.
GA: What I want to do is, I want to figure out what her growth year is. It's amazing. Two lovers living together, double lovers. It works, huh?
SG: Actually, we don't live together.
GA: Well, being lovers. I wonder if it would work if you lived together.
SG: I wonder too. We wonder together.

GA: [laughs] This is your karmic link.
SG: With Jane. Together?
GA: Yeah. This is the pregnant lady in the deck. She is the princess of disks. She has gone, walked up the top of the mountain, gone through the briar patch. All those are obstacles that she has left behind, so that in your relationship, with obstacles, unresolved karma, whatever it was that you had to do together, you have done pretty much. You're in the clear. You're out of the woods, so to speak. The briars, the branches, those represent obstacles that you've gone through. That the both of you have gone through. Again, the Aries, moving forward, the Aries horns, the ram horns, moving forward with awareness.
There's a snake, and she's carrying it on her shoulders, and it looks like a cloak and it's asleep. She's near getting ready to do this transformation, to give birth to a new identity. Because this represents your karmic link, both of you are getting ready to-- I guess to exhibit new parts of your personality that working through these things has freed. That you can now be more yourself, that you can be a new part of yourself that you hadn't been able to be with her, because you've worked through all these things.
The long braids go all the way to the ground, which again, like the staff with the diamond at the end, represent bringing to earth, achieving, completing, manifesting. The braids are sort of tight on top and then more loose on the bottom. It's sort of like a symbol for the tightness of the structure of, I guess the relationship with the karmic link. You know like, I'm loosening it up a little, and the braids are coming undone.
The other symbol for earthing is the pedestal, because she's touching the pedestal with her body, and it goes all the way to the ground, and that is a symbol like the staff. Anything that goes from above to below means bringing down energy, manifesting, earthing. She's holding a yin-yang symbol in her disk, in her hand. The yin-yang symbol is vertical, so it means interchange. When it's horizontal, it means change in the environment. Vertical means inner."
SG: Inside ourselves or inside the relationship?
GA: Inside the karmic link between the two of you. I guess it's inside both of you, since both of you make the link. Disks is the symbol for the wheel of fortune also, for you've got things in control. You've got a handle on it. This represents, again, the disks, health, external environment, and money, abundance. It's the earth symbol. She's a very unusual lady, because look at her eyes. She's sort of like three-dimensional. I don't know.
SG: The eyes remind me of the queen in Snow White. She reminds me of the wicked stepmother, actually. What's the background Gloria?
GA: Would you like some--?
SG: Yes, I would love. What's the background? Is it mountains?
GA: Yes, she's walked through the mountains. It's been a long, hard struggle, a journey. She's gone through the dark forest.
SG: Is that still a cloak? Is all that still the cloak that she's got there?
GA: That's part of the snake.
SG: Is that still a snake?
GA: That means that the regenerative powers are very great, transformative powers. Either it means that you're going to give birth to a project that's financially rewarding, or you're going to give birth to a new identity. Since the question is about the karmic link, it seems to me that the new identity applies, but I'm not sure.
SG: That's good. For sure it's not financial. [laughs] I don't see that at all. It must be the other.
GA: Yes. She looks a little tired. It's been a long haul.
SG: Mm-hmm. That's good.

JL: Has this been of value to you?
GA: This has been a very good reading.
JL: Have you had any palm readings before?
GA: Um I had a woman named Elena who goes around town doing it. But very--just like five minute things. But I've always been interested in palms. I want to take a workshop.
JL: Do!
GA: I'm also very interested in tarot, in I Ching-
JL: Well you just generally have a lot of interest in the occult. And pursue your interests, because you have a tremendous amount of intelligence and-energy. And it should be used.
GA: Okay
JL: I hope I have given you something to work with and you have somehting you came for.
GA: Yes
JL: Your direction is deifnitely with people and with things and with serving.
GA: My destiny is the lovers [inaudible] Number 6 [inaudible]
JL: And, uh, don't let other people determine for you what your needs are.
GA: Alright, thank you.
JL: Do I have your card?
GA: Yes. It's right there.
JL: Thank you.
[Recording Stops]

TD: What I want to say is you have real, real--very, very interesting palms, first of all [GA laughs], because of many reasons. One, is that you came into this lifetime with pretty heavy [inaudible]--pretty heavy karma in this lifetime and you've already totally taken care of it.
GA: Totally?
TD: Yep. You've worked off what you had to work off and I'll tell you why. Uh, you see the difference in the two palms?
GA: mmhmm
TD: This one be much more complicated than this one. This one you're really clearing up. You're really taking charge of your life in this lifetime. You're really, really clearing up--just look at the difference. The clarity of this palm. Compared to this. Like this is a heavy palm on that level. In other words, much more stuff to work out. You conscioulsy made the decision of handling life in this lifetime. Not being a child of fate. This is just wonderful. I'd love to take your palm prints [GA laughs] because that's so vividly illustrated, you know? [Inaudible] And you're greatest accomplishement in this lifetime by the way is really going to, uh, is really going to be what I call a "creatress of realities." Because you really are not a child of fate. You barely have a fate line in this hand. Which is very, very good you see.
GA: mmhmm
TD: But even here, you're already had chosen when you came in--I wouldn't be surprised if this might be your last incarnation [inaudible].
GA: [laughs] Okay
TD: Or one of the--If its not your last, you don't have too many to go through anymore. You might want to check [inaudible]. There's not much-

Demonstrating on Anzaldúa's hand, Diaghilev points out the the location of each mound and its significance: Jupiter (public life), Saturn (inner life), Apollo (creativity), Mercury (communication), Lunar (inspiration and love of beauty), Venus (passion and love), Positive and Negative Mars (energetic balance). Diaghilev says Anzaldúa's hands show that she used to have a temper. Anzaldúa laughs and says she still does. Diaghilev tells Anzaldúa she has been better equipped balance her temper as she has cleared her throat and heart chakras. Diaghilev goes on to describe the lines of the hand: Life Line (physical life and health), Head Line (career and intellect), and Love Line/Heart Line (love).

Diaghilev instructs Anzaldúa on developing her consciousness around the healing aspects of her work; to make an affirmation in the morning before she gives a workshop or speech. Diaghilev validates other forms of healing, such as conversation and cooking. Diaghilev encourages Anzaldúa to engage intent to heal in the same way she would engage her knowledge before speaking publicly. Insists that her teaching work is healing work.
Diaghilev details how Anzaldúa should move energy through her chakras. There's a cat meowing in the background. Anzaldúa says this pratice will be helpful in her workshops. Diaghilev mentions she can do this work by herself or she can engage her audience to collectively build the energy in the space and for the event, as a collective raising of consciousness.

Diaghilev instructs Anzaldúa on how to protect and balance her energy when she is dealing with the public in order to not drain herself. Diaghilev encourages Anzaldúa to bring her spirit guides with her when she engages with the public.

Diaghilev suggests having her guides with her whenever she speaks in public. Diaghilev tells Anzaldúa how she connects with her own master guide, a Mayan priestess, when speaking in front of audiences. Anzaldúa asks if Diaghilev's guide was an iteration of herself in a past life. She responds that her main spirit guide was her teacher in her past life. Diaghilev was also a "Sybil" type in Babylon.
Anzaldúa says she is writing a poem about Lady Babylon/Scarlet Woman. Anzaldúa asks if Diaghilev does her energy work in seclusion. Diaghilev says no, she does it before she speaks to crowds and with her classes, before several thousand people at a time. It has helped her maintain her power, because "I was more than just me." Diaghilev advises Anzaldúa to go into her past lives and be the strongest versions of her past selves.

GA: See, well, it's only since the last--since the time you taught us to go into our archives I've been doing it and so I wanna keep doing that.
TD: mmhmm yeah. And I know you've been a teacher before, you know. And so sometimes it's really hard. I have to take on that valence and speak from that space as a teacher. Oh! a lot of interesting information comes through that way. Or speak through your teacher, like the indian woman. That's sometimes how I speak. Aramayo [?]
GA: She's been coming through in Spanish lately [laughs]
TD: Far out! Tape record it. Record it. Be suprprised at your voice eventually, you know? Go in trance and record it whatever she wants to say, say it, you know? [pause] Okay!