Lisa Biow: [unintelligible 00:00:01] like I never did it before. Just in terms of the very basic, general things about the chart, you're very on the air and fire. A little bit on earth, which is a good thing [laughs] in a chart like this. There's a lot of things about earth--Virgo in particular, and Virgo energy in particular, is very important, it's very crucial to you. There's this whole thing about discipline and ritual, very-
Gloria Anazaldúa: Sí.
LB: -sort of regular setting up rituals for yourself that help you channel your energy is a very critical thing in your life.
GA: It is [crosstalking].
LB: It's part of your path, basically. We'll get into that when I talk about your North node.
GA: OK.
LB: Anyway, but basically, aside from that Virgo stuff going on, it's mostly air and fire, which is very self-expressive. Self-expression in the sense of there's a real need to put yourself out there in some way. You hate feelings of restriction.
GA: Oh yeah.
LB: The energy is very much going out, wants to go out all the time. Whereas the earth and water are much more self-contained, sort of gathering in energy.
GA: Any kind of limitations on me, I can't stand it.
LB: Yes, well, there's a lot of stuff in here about how you could never do a nine-to-five job if your life depended on it. It's just not in the cards.
GA: I know, I've done it, but I can't--I just can't! [laughs]
LB: When I was looking up stuff in your chart, it was funny, there's about four different things in it say forget the nine-to-five jobs circuit. Everything in your chart says, "No way." It's also a particular kind of playfulness to both those, more so than the other ones. Earth and water tend to be a little more somber and a little more-- Everything is gathered in. Can't remember the difference between centripetal and centrifugal, but the one that goes out is air and fire, and the one that sort of gathers in is earth and water, and you're heavy on air and fire. It's good that you have that earth in there, because otherwise you'd be a little too unfocused.

Elements: "The twelve signs of the zodiac refelct three qualities in each of the four elements in the form of fire, air, earth, and water signs."
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: I'd be [laughs] spaced out.
LB: It's not so much spaced out, but just scattered. It's not like Pisces, that's real spaced out. It's sort of running in so many directions at once that you don't know what you're doing anymore. A tendency to really exhaust yourself also, because you have so much energy and you have so much you want to do all the time that could get going off in too many directions.
GA: Yes, I always want to do everything.
LB: Yes, well, there's a lot of stuff about that.
GA: According to the sidereal astrology, I'm a Virgo, not a Libra.
LB: Oh, yes?
GA: [laughs]

LB: I can never quite figure out what I think about this stuff, because I'd be a Cancer, and I really don't feel like a Cancer to myself. [unintelligible 00:03:06] I don't see you as much of a Virgo, either, although there's Virgo in your chart. Anyway. Also, you're very little fixed. It's mostly mutable, which is the Sag. Mutable or calm. There's two different ones. [unintelligible 00:03:29] that there's four different elements, then there's three different modes, they're called. There's cardinal, fixed and mutable. You're mostly cardinal and mutable. The only thing that's fixed in the entire chart is Pluto and Leo, and everybody born anywhere around us had Pluto and Leo. It's a generation thing, it's not very specific to you.
Which does mean that you have a tendency to have trouble sticking with things over the long haul, sometimes. On the other hand, it means that you don't tend to get real rigid around things. You have lots of initiative. The initiative is the cardinal, and that's the real-- The people who always start things off usually have a cardinal [unintelligible 00:04:20] within whatever element it falls in, its the beginning of that. It's sort of like the springtime of that particular element or the beginnings of figuring out what that stuff means. With you it's Ares, cardinal fire.
GA: Yes, I've got about six books that I'm working on. [laughs]
LB: Yes. They always have great ideas and tons of initiative and just go out there and they'll start anything, and they're very fearless, usually about going out there and doing it, but then they get bored.
GA: That's why I have [unintelligible 00:04:52] The novel, I started writing that in '74, and I'm still working on it. That's almost 10 years.
LB: Libra has that also, sort of initiative. It's in a different sphere, it's much more in social stuff. You make connections with people very easily, and you'll do that. Then you have a fair amount of emphasis on mutable with the Virgo. You have the Venus in Virgo and your midheaven in Virgo and Sag rising. The mutable is distributive. It's wanting to make the connections between everything, whichever element it's in.
While Sag, in particular, is a lot that way of making the connections between philosophical ideas. It's a lot more communication and sort of putting the stuff out there in a way. The cardinal is the initiation and then the fixed is the consolidating whatever that particular element is. Then you get to the mutable, which is spreading it around in the world. You're big on starting it and spreading it around the world, and you have a little bit trouble of just sort of [unintelligible 00:06:19] [crosstalk]--
GA: Yes, let somebody else finish it.
[laughter]

Modes/Qualities: "Within the four elements, astrology differentiates three qualities: cardinal (impulse-giving), fixed (impulse-receiving), and mutable (flexible)."
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

LB: [unintelligible 00:06:21] and sticking with it and that kind of stuff. That's the real basic, outlining system. All your planets are in one half, pretty much. This is more out-in-the-world focused, and this is much more of the introverted. Your moon is there, but a lot of, sort of your life is making connections with people. It's not about just purely probing your own psyche. It's a lot about putting it out there and honing structures in the world and making connections with people. Especially the 10th house thing, which will be good. There's more going in your 10th house than anywhere.
GA: The structures and stuff that I'm putting out, are they mental?
LB: Well, there's two things on that. There's all this 10 path stuff, and a lot of what you're putting out-- 10th house is-- In traditional astrology it's the house of the professional, meaning standing in community and that kind of stuff. In your case, it's more like a thing of making-- It's a lot about structures. It's the Capricorn house. It's the Saturn house, also. It's building structures in the world. It's a profession in the sense that you're building something. It's a real building house. There's some real need to do something in the world and to affect the world in some way. That's a real driving force, and your sun is there. Your sense of purpose, it's not enough for you to sort of be mountaintop figuring out, you know, whatever. There's something about needing to make some sort of-- To build something in the world. To build something that is useful to other people.
GA: I have this whole philosophy and this whole yoga, and this whole thing that I call El Mundo Zurdo which I want to present to the world, and I've been weaving it in and out of my autobiography, and the problem with the autobiography is all these connections that I want to make. [laughs]

Title: "El Mundo Zurdo," essay notes | Location: Box: 61 | Folder: 18

10th House: Placements in the 10th House refer to notions of life purpose, success, and social acknowledgement. Other associations include, "vocation and calling, public recognition, social position, fame and honor, -career, power and authority, responsibility, achievement, popularity."
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

LB: Yes, that makes sense. The ruler, in a way, of your 10th house is this Venus, which is right on. The midheaven is the cusp, or the the very beginning of the 10th house. It's sort of the focus point of all that stuff about how you-- It's interesting, because different people read midheaven in slightly different ways. The woman who did my chart last January has this thing about the midheaven. She thinks the midheaven as the most important place in the chart, much more important than the ascendant.
It's this particular kind of astrology [unintelligible 00:09:28] that I can't decide whether I agree with it or not. I can buy that to a certain extent, but she sees the midheaven as the symbol of where you fit, where you fall in the Earth or how you are related to the Earth as a planet and where you are in relation to this global community.
GA: Sort of like your destiny.
LB: Yes, but it's your location on this planet as opposed to just you as some sort of abstract. It's very where you are on the Earth, particularly. [unintelligible 00:09:55] as a point.
GA: That's very interesting.

LB: Yours, as well, it's in Virgo, and your Venus is right next to the midheaven. It's very close, one degree. That really colors how you think about all that. Your art, the making. It's art and it's a certain sort of looking for the beauty in whatever or looking for the harmony in whatever, and that the creation of beauty and of harmony and integration is absolutely crucial to how you see it. That's where you see your function in the world a lot, and that's the stuff you want to put out there. Sounds very--
GA: [unintelligible 00:10:36] You're right about the harmony.
LB: There's a real thing about balance. It's interesting, because Libra--There's all these connections back and forth. Your sun is in Libra, and the Venus, which is this real strong, absolutely focal planet in terms of all this stuff, is the ruler of Libra. Libra is a very social sign in some ways, and they are very into balance and they don't really like to fight and they don't like conflict a whole lot, but they're not wishy-washy at all. They're very feisty. They have a real strong sense of justice a lot of the time. They'd rather everything be in balance, but they can get just furious when somebody refuses to let that happen. Do you know what I mean? They can be really fierce fighters, and they would really rather not have to fight at all, but if it comes to that, you better watch out.
GA: I never get angry, but when I do people just run. [laughs] They don't want to be around.
LB: It's true. That's perfect Libra. They're very strong in a particular kind of way, but they'd rather everything be in harmony, but partly they'll fight for that. They'll fight for that to happen.

Title: Lecture - Emotions and Anger, 1988 March 05 | Box 155 | Item 3** | Extent: [mp3 #103]

GA: If this is ruled by Mercury, does that mean that-- This is ruled by--
LB: Well, it's interesting because the midheaven is in Virgo, which is ruled by Mercury which is in Libra, which is ruled by Venus which is in Virgo. There's all this Venus, the Virgo, Libra and Venus, Mercury stuff keep circling back around each other here.
GA: That's very interesting.
LB: There's these two planets, the Venus and your Mercury, there's a name for that. See, when one planet is in a sign, there's a thing called the dispositions. Different planets are ruling over different planets depending on which sign is-- You do little chains all the way around the chart sometimes of the sun is in Sagittarius, which is ruled by Jupiter, which is in whatever, which is ruled by whatever. You get this little chain of things affecting each other that way. Yours, you've got your Venus and Mercury are mutual dispositors of each other. They're very connected that way. They're each in the other one's side, and then you have your 10th house, Libra in this house that is ruled by Mercury because Mercury is in your midheaven. They're very connected.

GA: Then did the Capricorn and the Saturn also affect this 10th house, right? How much is their effect?
LB: Well, it's sort of like the 10th house is to houses the way Saturn is to planets and the way Capricorn is to science. There's one real nice astrology book in which they have-- they just give the numbers to all the planets and all the houses and all the signs and they link up of the first house is the Aries house is ruled by Mars. The second house is the Taurus house is ruled by Venus. It's that quality to that house but it's not-- So it has the flavor of Capricorn and Saturn in the sense of both of those, Saturn is the planet of structure and of building structures, and Capricorn is the sign that is the most involved with that stuff. That's what the 10th house is about.
It's not like your 10 house is ruled by Capricorn. Your 10th house in particular is ruled by Virgo, because that's what's [unintelligible 00:14:25] or it's ruled by Mercury. [unintelligible 00:14:30] Anyway, the stuff in terms of putting stuff out there is very much connected with all this 10th house stuff, which I'll go into some more in a minute. Also, there's the Mercury in the 11th, which is your intellectual vision, and it's in the 11th house, which is community. It's the Aquarian house. It's community and a utopian vision of the ideal community of the future. It has a lot to do with your friendships and collectivity and however you identify your community, that's 11th house stuff.
GA: That's exactly right.

LB: There's a lot of stuff about your vision. Your intellectual vision is very much connected with that, and that's the issue that you're in some ways most intellectually interested in. That's the place that your communication is directed, is to this some vision of a community.
GA: Sí. Especially this past month when I've been doing a lot of meditating and a lot of affirmation is coming through, and I'm even getting some training in my sleep from the astroplanes. All this weird stuff is going on [laughs].
LB: Well, there's a lot of real strong visionary stuff in your chart, especially having this-- Well, let's go back to the 10th house thing. The sun conjunct Mars and Neptune thing is a very powerful little grouping of planets. Your sun essentially it's your ego, not in the sense they talk of in yoga of you need to get rid of your ego. It's not that. The sun's your sense of self in some very deep way.
GA: Is it the soul, the self?
LB: It's not even "the self," because your self is the whole chart. It's more like your conscious identity. It's more how you see yourself, how you see yourself very much in the world. It's a lot about will and sense of purpose and that kind of thing. Your moon is yourself also, but it's the less conscious, more emotional, reactive, emotional, less purposeful. The sun is like your sense of purpose. It's how you see yourself as an actor in the world. A lot to do with purpose and will [unintelligible 00:17:05] It's yourself. It's conscious identity. You need to be taking care of your sun stuff. If you're not taking care of your sun stuff you start feeling like you don't have any purpose in life.
GA: See, I get very--
LB: If you're not taking care of your moon stuff, you feel emotionally ungrounded, but it's a very different thing. It's stuff like you can feel very emotionally grounded and you're taking care of all your moon stuff or whatever, and feel totally listless in a way, because your sun is sometimes messed up at that [unintelligible 00:17:40] There's different aspects of yourself, but the conscious, identity purpose kind of thing is the sun.

Title: "Vision," 1983 | Location: Box: 65 | Folder: 18

GA: See how it's only three degrees away from Virgo.
LB: Well, except that the beginning of the sign is very strong in that sign.
GA: Ah, so it's not on the cusp?
LB: Well, it is, but the cusp-- Things get mushier at the end of a sign. If you have something that's 29 degrees, something or other, it's very much shading over into the next sign. If it's in the very beginning of a sign, it's very much that sign. If you're one or two degrees, something, it's very strongly that sign, but when you're in the very end of the one before it's starting to get mushy. It's like you're Neptune and Virgo is really hovering on Libra, but the sun is very strong in Libra. Actually there's this thing called decans, where they divide the sign up into three pieces, and the first one is the most that sign, in a way. The Libra Libras is the first 10 degrees, and then the second 10 degrees would be the next air sign along, which would be Aquarius. There's an Aquarian tinge to those Libras. Then the third one is the next one along, which is Geminis, Gemini-ish Libras, but you're the Libra Libra.

GA: The woman who did the gnostic circle, she does that with the [unintelligible 00:19:08]. She does that with a-- You know?
LB: Oh, woah.
GA: Yes. You're going to like this book.
LB: Oh, that's so [unintelligible 00:19:14] Anyway, okay. This conjunction here are those three planets. Sun conjunct Neptune in itself is-- actually [unintelligible 00:19:29]. All three outer planets are in some ways mystical, spiritual stuff to them, but in very different flavors. Neptune is the real oceanic, at-one-with-the-world, complete loss of ego, that kind of spirituality. I mean it's ocean. That's all I can think of is ocean, and this real sense of being very much at one with everything and peaceful and also very prone to-- It's also a planet of illusion and just being lost in stuff and drugs. People who have screwed up Neptunes are way into drugs. When there's problems with your Neptune, there's a real problem dealing with reality, altogether.
GA: A large part of my life is like that.
LB: Yes. It's a very hard aspect that way. You have a vision of how connected everything is and of how it should be that way and how everyone should be feeling that. The fact that the world as you have to live it day to day is so far from that is so horrible that there's a real tendency to just withdraw into yourself and build your own fantasy world, because there's this incredible--You have a sense of such empathy with all the stuff around you. There's all the violence or the whatever or the horrible stuff that's going on in the world. It's just too much to deal with alongside that feeling of connectedness with everything.
GA: I can remember as a child feeling like that. I had to grow a thick skin.

LB: Which is very hard for you. You've got all this stuff in here about problems with growing a thick skin. I imagine you're a whole lot better at it now, but definitely when you were a kid of just the thing of having almost no psychic defenses and just the world just completely flooding in on you all the time.
GA: Is that because of Neptune conjunct with sun?
LB: That's a lot because of Neptune. It's also because of your Saturn is retrograde, which is different, but it also has to do with not being very well defended against the world, psychically. Especially with sun conjunct Neptune. There really is this thing of a real strong, empathic connection with everything living around you.
GA: Like it hurt me when people were turning off the cigarettes on the grass. The grass is alive.
LB: Right, that kind of stuff. It could be really agonizing on some level to be that in tune with what's going on. This is the problem with people with strong Neptune things is you're so aware of everyone's pain or everyone's whatever that you can't deal with it. It's like having skin of parchment or something. You're feeling everything's pain and everybody's pain and everybody's whatever. Even good stuff can be completely overwhelming because you've got everybody's.
GA: Then I tend to go the opposite way, to become callous, just in self-protection. [laughs]
LB: You never really manage very well to be callous, I imagine. Probably callous by your standards is not callous by other people's standards. There's also, one of the things that people with that kind of stuff tend to do is withdraw into a real fantasy world. I have a moon in Pisces, a really strong moon in Pisces, which is similar stuff. It works in a different way than mine, because yours is much more connected with your sun, which means in some ways that you have a hard time getting a handle on who the hell you are.
Especially when you were a kid, I imagine, had a really hard time figuring out who you were and what you wanted to do in the world and what your sense of purpose was or what your own value was, even, because, first of all, it was really difficult for you to separate out yourself from everything else around. There wasn't a sense of you as a separate entity, because you felt so connected to everything. One of the things that happens a lot with the sun-Neptune stuff is real insecurity in a certain way. If you feel like you're unequipped to deal with the world. Everyone else seems to wander around not getting upset about the grass, and [unintelligible 00:24:01]
GA: Yes, I couldn't believe these people. I hope you have a pen, because I don't have any cartridges.
LB: Yes, I do. Let me turn this off [unintelligible 00:24:21]
[sound cut]

[Voicemail recording]
Speaker: The week of starting on Saturday, June 5th, I believe it is, whatever that Saturday is. We'll have to get together for dinner some night during that time. I would guess that it will be that Monday. I don't remember the date, should be-- My guess is that it'll be Monday, June 8th. I'll try to get in touch with you. If you don't hear from me, call the house or something so I can figure out where I can find you, or give me your office number, which I doubt I still have, and we'll work something out. Okay. Right now I am heading to a shopping center where I'm going to look around for some interiors.
If I don't find some interiors, I'm also looking for a pair of nylon bathing trunks, swim trunks, whatever you call them. I had a pair I bought maybe 20 years ago, that I still have, but they're finally getting unglued. From my standpoint, if you can get 100% nylon swim trunks, they dry out so fast. It's always a pain in the neck when you go for a swim and you come out and that damn things stay wet for a couple of hours. These things, you could come out and you'd be completely dry in 20 minutes. They wear like iron, which is great for sailing.
I've seen some in Sears, but the bastards never have any assortment. I see exactly the one I want in size small, which is hardly what I can use. I see lots of what I don't want in the size that I normally wear. Among my other things, including looking for interiors, I also check every Sears store I see to see if maybe they got the swim trunks I'm looking for. Anyway, enough of this garbage. Talk to you in a couple of weeks. That's all. Bye-bye.
[END OF AUDIO]

Lisa Biow: Remind me of the [unintelligible 00:06:23] I'll teach you after this because it's not hard. You need to get one for the year of your birth or get one that--They have like 10-year ones. Anyway, go to [unintelligible] and find out what you can find. If you can get one just for that year it would be nice but it might be hard.
Gloria Anzaldúa: The year of my birth?
LB: Yes. The year of your birth will do it. Because on that method of progression during the course of your whole lifetime, you won't get much past Capricorn. Your Sun won't progress past here. There are different sorts of methods of progression. I don't work with progressions all that much altogether but that's the most standard one. Your moon would be-- Let's see, your moon in 43 would be circled down once and 28. Then 12, 12 days would be about-- I don't know if I can figure this out on my head, probably in Libra.
Yes, Libra maybe is working. I need to look it up. Almost maybe somewhere around there, would've circled around all the way around once and then be a little less than halfway through, et cetera.
GA: That's so interesting. I'm here now and here I thought I'd just gone into my seventh house. [laughs]

LB: I mean there probably are other modes of-- Your moon is over here. Your moon in the air is-- Wait a second, my air is over here and once would be about here.
GA: It's because it's static. If we had things that we could turn around--
LB: I know. People do charts like that sometimes where they have different pointers around. They do it for progressions that they have three different pieces of paper that are circles and there's one of your natal charts and then the transits and your progressions. They're moving them around and then they'll move it a little bit longer to see where you're going to be a year from now in relation to this and that and it's interesting. There are people who actually do that. Where am I at? Oh yes, you're around a square. Let me look at my notes on this for one second. One of the things that goes on with all the Eros connections, and in your case, I think it works mostly pretty well for you. It is all trines and it's like you can get a little lazy in this respect. Trines can make for a lot of laziness.
GA: Yes, that's one of my qualities.
LB: I'm not sure I have that luxury. [laughter] I'm not all square. If you get lazy, you just stay in the same place. In your chart, it generally works fairly well. It's not like you mess yourself up with your Eros. You have absolutely no tolerance for boredom or for conservatism in the strict sense of the people who are interested in making it like they think it was three days ago. You're always moving forward, very inventive, with no respect for authority [chuckles] whatsoever, or convention, or--
If somebody tells you you should do things because this is the way they are done, this is absolute useless information to you, and you're very likely to do exactly the opposite exactly for that reason. It's the sense of--
GA: Reacting?
LB: Not in a bad way necessarily, but if you wanted to break through whatever structures are around you, you don't have any use for that, for social convention, in that sense. It really doesn't.
GA: In friendships too. I like to shake them up.
LB: Oh, yes, it's a real shake-them-up energy. Aquarians are like this in general because they're ruled by that planet, but Aquarians always have this thing, they love to say things that are going to make everybody's jaw drop. They figure it's good for everybody to have their ideas shaken up periodically, and you have that also, of the sense of always wanting to figure out the thing that no one has thought of, that's going to--People getting their set images of the world, or set ways of thinking or whatever, you're the person who's always looking for the little something that's going to shift the way everything looks, that's going to turn the world upside down. Not for yourself, but for other people also. That's one of the services you perform for your friends; shaking up their worldview periodically, which is nice.

GA: Sometimes they don't like this. [laughter]
LB: Right, it could be a problem with Tauruses in particular, watch out for that. There's lots of ideas, lots of new ideas all the time and enthusiasm for everything, and there's this real quest for new stuff. Not just for newness in itself, which is a Gemini thing, just there's this sense of wanting to unhinge. It's an intellectual thing. Unhinge the way people are looking at the world, or the way that you're looking at the world.
GA: I see.
LB: It's nice because you're really, in some sense, very comfortable with that energy. A lot of people have a lot of problems with that. You're fairly comfortable with it, and there is--There's some counterbalancing thing with your Saturn and Gemini. There's a particular intellectual rigidity that you've had to fight in yourself, but on some levels, you're very much looking for the thing that turns it all upside down. The one problem with the amount of strength is that you can be impatient, and impulsive, and need to channel those flashes sometimes, or that will to break it all up and start all over. Because occasionally, you can get into trouble with that if you don't stick around long enough to find out what's useful in some particular way of looking at something. You're immediately wanting to shake it all off and start all over, which can be a problem. I would worry about it more if it was square. I think it works pretty well for you for the most part, but there is occasionally a need for moderation. It's also, it being this very electrical explosive-- Not explosive, it's not quite the word, but--
GA: Intense?
LB: Very intense, but fast, intense. It's like flashes. Lightning or electricity is the best image I can think of.
GA: I love lightning. Always [unintelligible 00:13:29].

LB: What was I going to say? Oh, you can short circuit periodically. That's all. It's another one of those stress yourself out of line, but it's really good that you're doing stuff like meditation or whatever, because there is this-- It can make you high strung after a while if you thrive on that explosive intellectual stuff to the point where you can burn. You can get yourself very frazzled if you're forever looking for the new thing to shake it all up, and you can just get real tired doing it.
GA: I was an insomniac for a long time.
LB: That's perfect. Yes, because Uranus transits, one of the major signs of Uranus transits is insomnia, when people are having real transits--
GA: Wow.
LB: I didn't even know this, when I had my chart done, I was having some strange Uranus transits at the time, and she said-- I had not said a word to her, but she said, "Having trouble sleeping lately?" She blew my mind. For the first time in five years, really having very heavy duty insomnia, and it was that. That and skin things. Like really strange little skin rashes is another Uranus transits thing. It's very hyper. It could be a little jittery when you get a little too much of it. Anyway, so there's that.

Uranus represents change, revolution, independence, and individual power.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

LB: Uranus is in the sixth house and there's all these [unintelligible 00:15:00] to your little threesome up here, which means that in some way, your work and what you see as your service to the world, again, is the sixth house thing. The tenth house is not so much service to the world, it's wanting to give something to the world like in a more grandiose sense. It's the building of structures in some way.
The sixth house is the plain, hardworking service on a very-- Your sense of that is--and this is part of your why you can't do a nine-to-five job thing, someone with Saturn-- No, that's not even [unintelligible 00:15:33] Saturn in sixth house. A messed up Saturn. With a different kind of placement in the sixth house. We'll say Sun in the sixth house is the person who can handle the nine-to-five job a lot better. You've got Uranus in the sixth house. It's a strong planet, so there is this real sense of wanting to do service, but your way of doing it is always going to be eccentric, and it's not going to be a regular, everyday whatever. It's going to be a much more impulsive visionary. Your brand of service is Uranian. You want to offer your visions to the world. That's your service. You'll never be able to deal with a kind of job that's too routine at all. You just can't cope with it. It's terrible.
GA: No, it kills me. It kills me.
LB: You shouldn't make yourself try. You should never do it unless it's like that or starving to death because it's terrible for you.
GA: I've been managing to survive on my writing, my gigs, and teaching.
LB: Yes, that's the perfect way for you to work. That's not--
GA: It's sporadic.
LB: It would drive me a little nuts, I think, but for you, I think it's really good.

The 6th House relates to physical health, work, and the ability to integrate into society. Uranus in the 6th House indicates an individual's ability to contribute novel ideas, which also often demand novel or unconventional working conditions, as well as the need to work independently.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: Being ruled by Taurus, how does that affect the sixth house?
LB: It's not ruled by Taurus. It's ruled by Virgo. This is the Virgo house.
GA: Okay, so this has nothing to do with--
LB: Oh, yes, I see your Taurus on the-- Yes. Is it intercepted? No. That affects it a little. That gives a little more solidity to your sixth house stuff, but not that much.
GA: Not that much?
LB: No, because the planet is so strong and it's got its own dynamic there. It overshadows your cusp a little, I think.
GA: A lot of it is intellectual because of the Gemini.
LB: The Gemini and Uranus itself is a pretty intellectual planet. It's not linear thought, but it's intellectual. It's the flash of whatever.
GA: The mind.
LB: It's very much the mind, but it's not like this, and then this, and then this, and this. It's like--
GA: Could it be in the intuitive level of the mind?
LB: Yes, for sure, exactly. You know what, it reminds me of-- Like I used to say, this thing with-- Because I have a very strong Uranus on my chart. It's exactly on this line, the [unintelligible 00:18:02].
GA: [unintelligible 00:18:02].

LB: Exactly. It's like this very internal thing. I'm not even aware of it, but it's very much rooted in me, this Uranian energy. It's also conjunct my Venus. I would do things like solve a math problem in my head in about 10 seconds that if I was to sit down and try and figure out the answer to, it would take me four hours. I even did that with astrology a lot, of like, "I'll figure something out." I'll have just an insight, a flash of, "Oh, this is X," and I'll say that, and then I'll get panicked about it, because I have no excuse for that answer. Then I'll go back and I'll track that, and I'll come out with the same answer four hours later, but that's very fast, non-linear intellectual stuff. Yes, it's [unintelligible 00:18:53].
GA: I have that with people. Like I'll see people, and I'll put two and two together, but in a way that is not like addition, you know?
LB: It's interesting because lots of times, you'll see like one or the other of the outer planets, which are the ones that have to do with psychic stuff. With you, you've got both-- Your Pluto isn't all that strong in the chart, but you have both the Neptune and the Uranus are very strong, very focal, important planets so that your psychic stuff is coming in two different-- There's two different major sources of it. One of them is that real oceanic, Neptuneian, empathic connection, which is very non-intellectual in any of the traditional senses of intellectual. It's totally feeling a spiritual non--It's very little to do with your mind than any traditional-- Or it's totally right brain kind of mind, if anything. It's connected with the mind at all. It's all the right side. Uranus is more of a traditional intellectual kind of thing, but it doesn't work linearly at all. It's not that kind of thing, it's a flash. Those are two very different kinds of spiritual energy.
GA: I have this problem that I always want to verify these flashes. It slows them down. I should trust them.
LB: Although for you, there's some value to that. You should trust them, but there's also a thing of-- Well, I'll get to that when I get to your notes, of real education and grounding of some of your psychic stuff is really important. That's not a substitute for trusting the psychic stuff. It's like the two of them should go together, of that sort of training and education, and then just doing it. They work together very well. It's not like you should play them off each other. Either you know it or you have this insight into it. It's the two of them work together. [unintelligible 00:21:01]
GA: I see.

LB: That one's that. Now where else am I? [unintelligible 00:21:16] that's so nice. Meg has [unintelligible 00:21:20].
GA: So does me.
LB: Yes, right. In the last couple years, I had never known anyone with-- Oh, that's actually Frankie [unintelligible 00:21:30]. I don't even know [unintelligible 00:21:35] it's some more of your quickness than your-- It's more visionary stuff in a particular way. It's like your ascendant-- Somebody described to me once I thought was nice, if you think of your Sun [unintelligible 00:21:55] move to some extent, but especially your Sun as being the contents of a bottle, that ascending is the neck and its particular channeling of your Sun.
It's like the Sun is the basic energy and it's like your ascending is almost like your style of expressing that, or your preferred style of expressing it. If you had your way, this is how you would go about expressing your Sun. It's not so much an internal part of your personality. It's much more your style. It has very much to do with action in the world.
GA: I like that analogy of the bottle.
LB: I think it works. See, it's not all that much different for the rest of your chart if you've got a lot of fire, air, and stuff. Anyway, in Meg it's very obvious because the rest of her-- She's a Capricorn, and a lot of the playfulness that would never be there usually in a Capricorn is the [unintelligible 00:22:51]. With you, it's not that different from the other elements in your chart. There's a particular fastness to it. There's also a real concern within quality of ethics or value systems having a lot to do with how you want to express yourself. That's some focus and what you want to be doing in the world. There's a real sense of tie everything that's going on into your belief system. You don't want things scattered all over the place.
GA: I don't.

LB: There's a real sense of wanting to fit it into how you see the world as a whole or how you feel like the world should be as a whole. That becomes a crucial part. First, I'll talk about your Saturn and I'll talk about your T Square Sun. [unintelligible 00:23:59] in your notes about the placement of your moon space.
Your Saturn in the seventh. Saturn is always a heavy-- It's also the teacher. I think there's this really wonderful book on Saturn, by the way, if you want a really nice astrology book. Have you ever seen this book, which is called Saturn? It's by a woman named Liz Green.
GA: Yes. I've seen it. I should read that.
LB: It's excellent. It's really excellent. Anyway, Saturn is the teacher and it's like a lot teaching through pain. The thing we're talking about, this is a lot-- That's what Saturn is about a lot. It's teaching through restriction of-- It depends a lot on the aspects to it and whatever, but to some extent always Saturn is a lot about where the blockages are, where you hold back. Saturn is also about how you define yourself, in a way that to some extent is very necessary to survive in the world and to some extent becomes a limit, especially when you're starting to get into spiritual stuff. There's a lot of stuff of getting past Saturn and undoing your-- It's like Sun and Saturn are like two different facets of ego in a way.
Sun is the sense of the self-expressive. It's the [unintelligible 00:25:36] sort of expansive, the heart and all that of that sort of very ego-centric but in a generous kind of a way, of your rootedness in yourself and your sense of purpose and all that stuff. Saturn is your ego in the sense of how you define your limitations of, "This is what I am," as opposed to something else. It's like you define yourself in a negative kind of a way, is Saturn, and it's a lot about structure and crystallization. It's like people have problems with Saturn have arthritis a lot and things like that. Just this real structure, rigidity thing.
GA: Well, had a little bit of being in here, but it's gone now.
LB: Good. Unless you're working with your Saturn [unintelligible 00:26:20]. [laughs] It's like the other part of ego in a way of like, you define yourself by defining what you're not or where your restrictions are or whatever. It's blockages. Where you stopped yourself.

"Saturn represents structure, steadfastness, and limitation-Saturn also represents the ability of a person to set boundaries, [as well as] those which do not let you reach what you desire."
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: I stopped myself in relationships or in love ?
LB: There's a real sense. It's a place of a lot of learning because in some way, wherever Saturn is, this is something that doesn't come easy. Therefore you have a tremendous opportunity to learn about, but it's very hard. Saturn in the seventh is-- The thing of long term-- Well, traditionally it's marriage, but the sense of the perfect other or there's some real sense of really wanting the perfect other, or the person who is your compliment and is your lifelong companion or whatever. There's a real yearning for that and it doesn't come very easily at all.
I don't know, there's a lot of things. First of all, there's really wanting that and also being afraid of it. Usually, wherever you have Saturn, you can go in one of a couple different directions with it. It's all like, there's a blockage and you can scatter in one of two ways. You can either get into a thing of you're completely obsessed with the relationships or you get into a thing of you're fiercely independent and you don't need a relationship.
GA: I do both. [laughs]
LB: There's a real thing of being incredibly aware of your own need for a relationship and vulnerability and feeling like you're incredibly needy or all this stuff. On the other hand, there's this real thing about total self-sufficiency.
GA: I have that, exactly.

LB: Let me detour for a second. Because I remember I mentioned before, your Saturn was retrograde. When Saturn is retrograde, a lot of the structure-- That thing about structure and protecting yourself from the world and defining yourself in relationship to the world in terms of your limitations of some rigid idea of who you are or whatever. When you've sat on retrograde, to some extent, you don't do that in the usual way. You don't set your limits, you don't put barriers around yourself in the way that most people do.
It's another one of these things of you don't have a lot of psychic defenses. There's a sense of you take in stuff very easily. You don't have your little barricade against the world. If anything, the way it works, especially when you're younger, I think is you barricade yourself from your own self-conscious, but you don't barricade yourself from the world. It's like the defenses are internal. It's like it all gets turned inside of you, so that you are defending yourself against yourself as opposed to defending yourself against other people. I think it's probably particularly hard in childhood.
GA: This is because--
LB: You can have a childhood in which you could be incredibly rebellious, but nonetheless, you take it in, in some very profound way of like, you can be really-
GA: This is a--
LB: A little battered by the world.
GA: Is this the way it's always going to be or only when Saturn is retrograde?
LB: Wait the way it's always going to be for you or the way it always is with Saturn? This is your natal placement. To some extent, that's a constant for you. The thing to do with it is to learn--
GA: That's good though.
LB: Yes, it is good in a lot of ways. Oh, there's one particular kind of barrier that you don't have to get through that a lot of people have. On the other hand, it's caused you a certain amount of pain if you're not defended against the world in that way.
GA: I see.
LB: That also means that you don't have to fight so hard to knock down the--You haven't gotten rigid in your definition of yourself in the world that most people have that then they have to bat down if they're ever going to go beyond that. [END OF AUDIO]