[Start of Recording]

Lisa Biow: Within the last year two years. I don't know exactly where it's found, maybe it was two and a half. I'm not sure. We'd have to look at maybe the transits. I mean, the exact-- I mean the memories, to look back to actually where the [unintelligible 00:00:14] but [unintelligible 00:00:15] and it probably would've gone back and forth in turns, because Saturn always goes back and forth, but Saturn, in terms of being a planet-- the 10th house is Saturn's natural house anyway.
When Saturn transitioned midheaven, it's a really big deal and has a lot to do with either you get serious about your work then, or you lose it. It's like your big opportunity to get it together, in terms of being real disciplined about your work.
Depending on what's been going on with Saturn and you, and how much you've gotten your work together. It's like if you've been doing your work real steadily before that point, it's a time of starting to reap the rewards of it. Usually, what it is, more often, is they're starting to get it really seriously together and starting to get really disciplined about your work in a way that will end up being very-- What is the word? "Rewarding" later on, like you're sowing the seeds, and stuff, that you will reap later.
It's a time of really starting to get that together and really just building up your structure [inaudible 00:01:30] It's a big deal transit.

Saturn: Boundaries and discipline

Gloria Anzaldúa: I don't know when it happened. I think it keeps happening, but--
LB: Well, it's still in your 10th house, for the next-- Let's see where it is exactly. Actually, no, it's just going out of your 1st house now. It's going into your 11th house, which will be interesting too. It's almost conjunctional [inaudible 00:02:02], which will be an interesting time in terms of writing also. It's conceivable that you might have a difficult time with writing. You might have a difficult time-- In terms of the writing, it won't come easy to you. You'll have a lot of discipline from it, but it won't come easy to you.
GA: Sometimes, it's not easy at all.
LB: Next month, and the next one. Saturn will go over your Mercury, which may be a hard time getting-- It's like the thoughts won't flow really easily. On the other hand, your discipline will be real good and you'll learn a lot, but you may go through like a few days then when it's-- or even a week or so. It's not a very long transit when [inaudible 00:02:56] back and forth. [inaudible 00:03:05]
I think there's an [inaudible 00:03:20] here [inaudible 00:03:22] or something. I don't know. Maybe that's for the year, it just happens.

Eleventh House: Friendship, society

GA: What, Saturn?
LB: No, that's [unintelligible 00:03:28] That's [inaudible 00:03:33] right. I think the October is the one when you can make the [inaudible 00:03:38] It's not going to quite make it that far because it's going to go forward the rest of [inaudible 00:04:00] It's like 3 degrees short of your Mercury right now. Maybe you're probably feeling it a little bit, but it's going to go backwards if you move forward. It's goes backwards, all the way to 15 degrees [inaudible 00:04:16]
GA: So that's going to be an interesting time?
LB: Yes. It'll be. What I imagine what would happen when the transit actually occurs, which will be in October, will be that it'll be a time when it'll be real- The inspiration won't come easy. It'll probably-- Actually, it'd be a great time to do work that depends less on inspiration and depends more on hard work. The kind of intellectual, like be it editing stuff or retyping stuff to send out somewhere or organizing your notes on something where there-- or gathering information for something, or the kind of stuff that's much more of the discipline, nitty-gritty kind of stuff. It'll be a real good time for that and not such a great time for flashes of insight.
GA: Sí. This is in October?
LB: Yes, in October. Probably [inaudible 00:05:26]
GA: It's not going to last long, is it?
LB: You'll feel it for a couple of weeks, probably. Anyways, if you want time to plan when you should do that kind of work, just do it at the end of October. [unintelligible 00:05:39] Uranus is in [inaudible 00:05:41] Uranus is in your 12th house right now, which is probably-- A lot of stuff is erupting in your subconscious that you can't get a handle on.
GA: Exactly, exactly.
LB: Little explosions are going on, you know something is happening, but you don't know what it is.
GA: I can't figure out what it is.
LB: In that sense, it'll probably be a relief when it goes into your 1st house, even though it may shake up your self-image a little bit. You'll, at least, be able to put your hands on it.

GA: When will it go into my 1st house?
LB: It's next year. It's until next year. It's not-- Anything that's going on in the 12th house, especially when it's near the cusp, it's a lot. That's what I was saying. It feels like being premenstrual, sort of. You can almost figure out what's-- it's like almost there. Stuff is rumbling around in the background. It's imminent, this feeling of imminence and of something that is happening and you don't have very much control over and you can't really quite figure out.
It could be good in terms of writing and could be real interesting to just maybe to try and actually focus on using imagery or relying more on imagery that comes from a real subconscious source for a while and playing around with that because there's a lot of stuff going on on that level, at the moment, and a lot of flashes.
GA: Sí.
LB: It would be nice to do dream work kind of things and just complete free writing kinds of things, and it'd probably be a really interesting time to try that. In terms of how to deal with it. Anything that has to do with the 12th house, the only way to deal with it is to let go, to be able to let go and let it be. Pay attention, but let it be.
GA: Si. That's so hard for me to do.
LB: Yes. The 12th house is a hard house. This just has your sun in the 12th house. That is a really difficult place for [inaudible 00:08:07].
GA: Oh, so is Cherrie's and Randy's. Both of them.
LB: It's hard.
GA: Plus they have Venus. What else do they have…? [unintelligible]
LB: It's interesting. It makes for a potential for a tremendous amount of compassion, but it's not easy in terms of figuring out what you want to be doing and how to do it.
GA: Saturn, Venus, and Neptune are in the 12th house?
LB: [unintelligible]
GA: [laughter] Sí.

Twelfth House: Devotion, service, endings

LB: [unintelligible] Some time next year [chuckles] It's going to square your natal Neptune, which means-- and then it’s gonna square your sun.
GA: What's going to square? Uranus?
LB: Neptune.
GA: Neptune.
LB: Which is now in the first half. That's the one that we're having a hard time figuring out, what's going on with you, how you want to relate to other people and feeling like other people's images of you are somewhat distorted, at the moment, anyway, or you're not putting-- There's some gap between how you see yourself in the world and how other people are seeing you. All that stuff.
Anyway, Neptune is going to square your natal Neptune, which just-- It means some-- Anytime there's like a square between a planet, at the moment, and your natal position. It's-- there's some sort of either a crisis or some realization or something, some big change goes on in terms of that planet. I mean, there's a real chance to get a much clearer handle on that planet [inaudible 00:10:37]. [unintelligible 00:10:39] I'll be talking for psychic things maybe next year, some sort of [crosstalk] a little crossroads.
GA: Next year around this time, you think? You don't know?
LB: I don't know because it keeps going backwards and forwards, so there's no way to really figure. It only change- it goes-- It's at 25 now. It's going be on like 27 at the end of the year. Yours is 29, so [inaudible 00:11:05]
GA: [chuckles] Okay.

Neptune: Dreams, insight, spirituality

LB: [inaudible 00:11:09] at 27 degrees heading for [inaudible 00:11:11] A lot of the 10th house transits, though. That's more transformational on the 10th house. It's trans-formula [inaudible 00:11:28]. It's a long transit. Pluto takes like a minimum of 18 years to get through a house, so it's been there for a while. Wait a second. Hold it, hold it. Is that [inaudible 00:11:48] Wasn't your [inaudible 00:11:52]?
What year were you born?
GA: '42.
LB: [inaudible 00:12:13] It's here. We went over your-- That would have been interesting. When was that happening? It really looks like-- I don't really understand. At some point, in the not-too-distant house, it went over here and here, which is probably a really big change in terms of how you [inaudible 00:12:38] about the [inaudible 00:12:40] It moved 2 degrees [unintelligible 00:12:43] over there. [inaudible 00:12:46]
GA: It just moved 2 degrees during the whole year?
LB: Yes.
GA: God.
LB: It's now 27 degrees. I guess about sometime within the last year or two, probably last year, and you've been feeling it for a while. Before that, you were feeling it still, but there was some point at which it was the most intense, and it was probably some time in the last year, towards the earlier part of last year. Maybe, I don't know, maybe the middle. It's hard to tell.

GA: I've been having really intense times for like a year and a half.
LB: Yes. It's transformation in terms of the way that you think and a real deepening of the way that you think.
GA: mmhm
LB: Anyway, and you still are in the middle of it. You're still technically in motion.
GA: [chuckles]
LB: Quite. It moved, and it was 2 degrees.
GA: Yes.
LB: [unintelligible 00:13:46]
GA: That's [inaudible 00:13:47].
LB: [inaudible 00:13:48] I understand. I mean, it's difficult, probably a little bit shaky at moments.
GA: Well, I don't know what's going on, but it's been going on since May. I really felt it.
LB: I really [unintelligible 00:14:06] in terms of, it's real interesting to look back on different periods and different real big changes in people's lives and stuff. Health things are real interesting to look at too. There was like a roommate of mine who had an ulcer, who we figured out. We figured out when it started and looked back in her chart, and it's these outrageous transits. I mean, all having to do with Cancer, and just the stomach, and Mars things and Saturn. Mars and Saturn and 4th House Cancer stuff. It was just like so clear, and it was incredible.
GA: Yes. I wonder if that was going on when I had my-- [crosstalk]
LB: Yes. I mean, for that, it was especially look-- We look-- possibly for Cancer, but especially for Scorpio, it kind of split up things.

GA: Well, if I got an ephemeris, would you teach me how to use it?
LB: Sure. I could teach you right here, because this is an ephemeris. This is what a page of an ephemeris looks like.
GA: I see.
LB: When you get the book. You look at the dates. These are all the different planets, and you just look down. It's-- Like on the 6th, the sun is-- this is-- you look at the top of the column for the sign, in the middle, for the sign, if it changes somewhere. Like there, it changes to a [unintelligible 00:15:31] at that point.
GA: You need a magnifying glass.
LB: Yes. Anyways, on the 6th, it's 15 degrees, 20.6 minutes Capricorn.
GA: Ahh. Oh, well that's easy.
LB: Yes. I mean, it's hard to read the numbers on this page, but that's how you do it.
GA: If I want to figure out where Uranus is right now, today is the 2nd.
LB: 3rd.
GA: The 3rd. It's 2 degrees south.
LB: Yes. 2 degrees 47.1.
GA: That might as well be 3.
LB: That's almost 3, yes.
GA: Sagittarius, so that was right over my ascendant.
LB: No, it's not. This is what I was telling you. It's around your 12th house. It's not going to move over your ascendant until next year.
GA: Oh, okay.
LB: And it goes backwards probably.
GA: I see. That's easy. It's easy to do. Then if I want to look up when I was operated, then I just look up. Okay.
LB: Yes. You find [inaudible 00:16:38] you look at the date, and you write down all the planets, and you go back to your chart and figure out all the aspects.
GA: okay

An ephemeris is a table that shows the positions of various celestial objects over a period of time.

[Tape stops and starts again]

LB: The transits, in terms of looking at the transits in general, you look at-- The inner planets are all much faster and they're much more sort of localized and sort of like what's going on in your life at the moment. You have a fight with a friend this day, you write a poem, those kinds of transits. I mean they're much-- where you're really concerned with one particular issue this week, or something. It's much more daily life kind of thing.
There are transits that are much more profound in your life are from Saturn on and out. Saturn turns [inaudible 00:17:36] In terms of your lever gear, which means it's pretty close to the beginning, so it's like a [inaudible 00:17:44]. There's a couple things that could be going on. First of all, possibly some sense of restriction in terms of friendships, feeling like a lack of friends or else possibly a feeling like you want to gather all your friends around you.
GA: Sí.
LB: Feeling like you really-- you like, all of a sudden, they've become much more precious to you. There's a little bit of this kind of wanting to conserve your circle.
GA: Sí.
LB: And a sense of the responsibility in terms of what you're kind of feeling. It just feels a little more weighty than it does usually.
GA: Yes. I started crying Christmas Eve because I miss my family and my friends. I never cry, hardly ever cry.
LB: Yeah. Possibly of feeling a little bit of a lack of a community at the moment.
GA: Sí.

LB: Also, whenever-- whereever Saturn is, there's some sense of restriction and there's also, it's a real time of learning about what your needs are in that particular area of your life and how do you want to handle it. It's just go through a lot of figuring out that particular part of your life. That's all going on there, and the friendships and collectives and political groups, that kind of stuff. That'll be going on. That'll be sort of an issue, more or less, for the next [unintelligible 00:19:26]
Actually, no, Saturn goes to the Scorpio at end of this year, but then I think it goes back prob-- knowing Saturn, it probably goes back, it fits back [inaudible 00:19:39]. Actually, it's 60 degrees, no, it won't be. Let's see. Saturn is about [inaudible 00:19:47] Yes, almost next year, probably the end of the year. It's always [inaudible 00:19:57]
GA: [chuckles] But that's not going to happen.
LB: For two years.
GA: For two years.

LB: [inaudible 00:20:06] another two years. There'll be [unintelligible 00:20:10] Saturn return. Saturn returns are a big deal. They [inaudible 00:20:15]
GA: No, but everybody's always talking about it.
LB: Saturn returns, it's when Saturn comes back to the place where it was when you were even born.
GA: Oh, So that's what it is?
LB: Yes, and it's a real interesting time for a lot of people. It depends a lot on how Saturn is placed in the chart. It also has a lot to do with how much you've been getting your shit together around Saturn for the last 28 years. It's a 28-year cycle. Your Saturn return happens somewhere between when you're 27 and 30.
It's interesting because you look at all kinds of people's lives. You notice all these people. Even hippies turn into businessmen, and, you know, people would be-- Whatever.
GA: And businessmen turn into hippies.
LB: This is when people also have decided that "No, this is not really what they want to do." They want to do something else. It's a real re-evaluation time. There's some people, the people who have been real disciplined, real strong about really getting it together about what they want to do with themselves. It's usually a real rewarding kind of time. It depends, but a lot people go through a lot of changes. There's a much more figuring out what your priorities are in your life. That's somewhere around 28 years old, 29 years old.
GA: It seems that I have to do that every few years. [crosstalk] Basically, I know, overall--
LB: Yeah, It's also like a square every seven years with it. It comes to another crisis or hot, intense point every seven-plus years. Anyway, that--

GA: Would there be a way to devise a chart that you could superimpose on this and move around?
LB: No, because the planets will move at different rates. No. You would probably make [unintelligible 00:22:26] all the planets [unintelligible 00:22:27]
GA: [laughs] [crosstalk] That might be worth doing. I love to do-- play with little things like that.
LB: [crosstalk] It's very handy, actually [unintelligible 00:22:41] aspectarian.
GA: As-pect-arian?
LB: It's like a little wheel, and it tells what year [unintelligible 00:22:50] All the planets and aspects-- All the aspects written on [inaudible 00:22:54] On the outside [inaudible 00:22:57] on the inside [inaudible 00:22:58] Anyway, what you do is you figure out aspects of it, and you can figure them out [snaps fingers] like that because it's got it all just like, "Okay, one is 29 degrees, and then the other one is 30 degrees, this, and you just read it right off there, where there is [unintelligible 00:23:17]
GA: Do you have one of those?
LB: I don't think I have one anymore. I used to have one. They're real handy. They cost like $2 or something. You can check them on [unintelligible 00:23:24]
GA: Oh, I should get one?
LB: They're really handy. They're really handy when you're doing transits because you can just figure out what the [unintelligible 00:23:30] planet at the moment [unintelligible 00:23:33] on the chart. You would line up one of the points with the degree that that planet was at, and then you would just look around the wheel and even read off where the squares are, where the oppositions are, where the [unintelligible 00:23:49] are [unintelligible 00:23:50] and look on the chart and [inaudible 00:23:51]

GA: [coughs] This is a very deep subject. You can just-- There's layers and layers and layers.
LB: Oh, God. It's so deep, you [unintelligible 00:23:58] I have to go [inaudible 00:24:04]
GA: Well you've been really helpful. I'm glad I got [unintelligible 00:24:10]
LB: [unintelligible 00:24:11]
GA: Yeah. [coughs] I feel sort of guilty for keeping you up late. Are you gonna have to get up early?
LB: [inaudible 00:24:17]
GA: It's after 3:00.
LB: [inaudible 00:24:21]
GA: [coughs] Maybe you can sleep in the car.
LB: I'm not going home [inaudible 00:24:29] I'm going at [inaudible 00:24:30]
GA: Oh.
LB: At this point, I have [inaudible 00:24:33] He's an old friend.
GA: Is it George Johnson?
LB: Yeah. Do you know George?
GA: Yeah.

[End of Recording]

Lisa Biow: Jupiter in terms of philosophy, which I think the way that they mean that translates into what we would call politics, somebody's politics, and also philosophy [unintelligible 00:00:13]
Gloria Anzaldúa: That makes sense.
LB: Your image of how the world fits together and what it all means and that kind of stuff in an intellectualized way is Jupiter, Sag, 9th house stuff.
GA: Because it's in Cancer, so I want the world to be one big happy family. [laughs]
LB: Well, it would be even more so if you had Cancer in the 9th house. I should go on, because the other thing that Jupiter, specifically, as the planet is Jupiter has a lot to do with the kinds of stuff that make you feel very expansive. The kinds of experiences and parts of yourself and activities that make you feel like the world is your oyster and everything is terrific and real-- I don't know what word I want. Just very at home in the world and grandiose and wonderful and all that stuff.
It's interesting. One of my best friends has no fire in her chart whatsoever, and she's generally very-- She's earth and water, and is usually real calm and into herself and not real out there in the world. She has a Jupiter in Leo. If you can get her to dance, which is a real trick, you can just watch that all of a sudden that the sense of-- If you can get her into doing something Leo, which is not easy because it clashes very much with her sense of who she is, all of a sudden she's very--
GA: Sí.
LB: Jupiter and Cancer means a lot of that sense of really being at home in the world and everything is fine comes from-- It's rooted in home stuff, having a homebase, having a real secure environment, and also emotional connectiveness somewhere. If you're ever going through stages in your life where, say, you're doing all intellectual stuff or all physical stuff or all out there in the world stuff without that internal, emotional-- What else can I say about Cancer? It's very much burrowing into yourself in this kind of way and making a home inside of yourself. If you're ever missing that in your life at some point, it's very hard to really get that sort of everything is okay. If you're missing--
GA: Yes, I tended to bring my home with me, take my home with me. I learned how to do that, but it was hard.
LB: I want to look up Jupiter in the 8th house. I could make a good guess at it, but I'll rather look it up.
GA: Sure.

The 9th House relates to the broadening of one's understanding of the meaning of life through experience and learning.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

LB: [unintelligible 00:03:26]
GA: [unintelligible 00:03:29]
LB: Now let's see, here. [unintelligible 00:03:36] There's a nice little circle, here. It's like [unintelligible 00:03:56] from Mars to Pluto [unintelligible 00:04:00]
It's sort of like like a mini grand trine. A grand trine is this wonderful aspect that everybody always wants.
GA: Which I don't have.
LB: Which you don't have. Linda has one. They're very, very rare. We have three planets that are all trying to be [unintelligible 00:04:15] circle of energy. It's like a mini grand trine with two [unintelligible 00:04:21] There's a really fluid connection between those three planets. It's nice, and puts more emphasis on the Pluto, which is in the middle.
Pluto in 8th house. The energy in both of those are similar. It's like the 8th house is the Pluto of the houses, kind of. It means that in some way there's a lot of emphasis in your life on transformation, a lot. There's a thing about Pluto where there's a constant need to transform yourself, move to another level. It's like the phoenix, is that symbol.

During its orbit, Pluto occupies each sign of the zodiac for an average of 21 years, resulting in a 248-year long orbit through the entire zodiac. Because of these long transits, Pluto's placement is interpreted to more strongly describe generations, rather than individuals. The shift of Pluto from one sign to another is said to mark deep transformations in humanity.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

The 8th House relates to the articulation of the mysteries of life and the unknown, cyclic patterns, the transformation of states of being, or experiences that are not easily defined.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: I'm always worried about change and always talking about change and transformation.
LB: There's a real need for that, because-- [unintelligible 00:05:17] image that Scorpios always have?
GA: I'm always talking about cycles and with this and with that.
LB: The other thing about that transformation is you need to be doing that. People who have a lot of Scorpio in their chart need to go through these rather enormous transformations in their life pretty regularly or they go backwards.
GA: These are people that have Scorpio?
LB: A lot of Scorpio, a lot of 8th house or a heavy Pluto. Any of those three. You need to go through transformations pretty regularly or the energy degenerates. You can't stand still. You need to go through it or you lose it and you fly backwards. That's what happens [unintelligible 00:06:23] [crosstalk]
GA: That's why I need to move around, because by moving around I stir things up.

LB: Yes. You know the Tower card in tarot?
GA: Yes.
LB: The Tower card and the Death card are both real Scorpio cards. The Tower is when you resist it, and you get thrown on your face because you've been getting a little too uppity and you haven't been willing to move it to another level.
GA: It's also interchange.
LB: Yes.
GA: I like both of those cards.
LB: Yeah, I do, too.
GA: When I get them I know I'm in for something.
LB: Yeah. I almost feel like the Tower is the one where you really need to go through changes and you're trying really hard not to, but Death card is really a lot more fluid in that way [unintelligible 00:07:11] no, wait, stop.
GA: [laughs]

The Tower card signifies profound inner transformation, and destruction for the sake of one's healing and renewal.
Similarly, the Death card relates to significant transformation, but is oriented toward the external world, relationships, and states of being. Bunning, Joan. The Big Book of Tarot : How to Interpret the Cards and Work with Tarot Spreads for Personal Growth, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2019.

LB: Anyway, it's [unintelligible 00:07:20] and that's a real important thing in your chart that, need to be [unintelligible 00:07:24]
What else? The moon's nodes. I don't know a whole, whole a lot about the moon's nodes. I know some. Supposedly what they're about is the South Node is the kinds of stuff that comes real easy to you. It's real natural, second nature stuff. Also in the south node, [unintelligible 00:08:00] in a way that can be real productive. They're things that come so easy to you you don't even need to think about them. The problem is that you can get really stuck there, because it's so easy.
GA: You don't want to let go.
LB: So long as you use it and move with it to another place, it's fine. The way people interpret it, if you were into karmic astrology is the South Node is stuff that's left over from the last lifetime. You don't even need to think about it, it's just very second nature. The North Node is the stuff that you need to do in this lifetime. They're opposite to each other [unintelligible 00:08:43] moving this way, using this to move there. So the South Node--
GA: I have a hard time letting go, just letting go and going.
LB: Yeah, getting on with it.

LB: The South Node in your chart is 3rd house Pisces, which is-- [unintelligible 00:09:11] 3rd house is one of the things that comes easy to you is…Verbal stuff comes fairly easy to you and thinking in terms of gathering information. [unintelligible 00:09:23] [crosstalk]-
GA: Oh, I love to do that.
LB: -intellectual butterfly, or just lots of information, everything is just fascinating, little bits of this and that are all wonderful.
GA: That's my favorite phase of anything, when I'm writing or collecting all the little bits and pieces and images and ideas and notes. That's real easy. I can do that. I love doing that. I have whole notebooks where I collect things, but getting past that stage--
LB: The trick is to move from that to the Sagittarian–[unintelligible] To develop to the 9th house thing which is the-- Geminis are collecting all the little pieces, and Sagittarius is the big picture, when you put it all together and you make it into a system or a vision.
GA: That's great. That's a good image.
LB: The pitfalls of the two, Gemini can't see the forest for the trees and Sagittarians can't see the trees for the forest. It's fun-- Intellectual styles, it's 3rd house, 9th house, Gemini and Sag are real different. You can have huge arguments about it, too. Geminis don't care about how it all fits together so much. It's just all the pieces are so interesting. They can be very objective in that sense.

GA: I'm learning how to put the little pieces together. The other stuff comes naturally, but putting the little pieces together, I have to work at it. I'm usually go through a trauma right after I finish gathering everything and then I know I have to start processing it and putting it together. I have writer's block. I go through this trauma every single time, even if it's just a poem. Usually I need to just go with the process and sit and not do anything about it for a couple of weeks, and then slowly of itself it'll-- When I try and force it it's very traumatic.
LB: That's interesting, because I work the other way around. I get the big picture first, and then I have to go back and actually fill it in and make it so that it really is comprehensible and makes sense and back up what I'm saying. That's were I get all--
GA: See, I start off by having the big picture, an idea, [unintelligible 00:11:39] the vision and then I gather all this little data, but to glue it together, that's where the trauma comes.
LB: The other thing about this South Node, North Node things is that South Node is in Pisces and North Node is in Virgo. Some of the ways that intellectual stuff comes to you is in terms of-- It's Piscean, it's psychic and very fluid and spacey and a little mystical and all that, and the stuff that's harder and that you have to work for more is the much more disciplined-
GA: Detailed.
LB: -focused, detail-oriented.
GA: Sí. Exactly. Wow, do you know me.
[laughter]
LB: Virgo in the 6th house are real interesting, especially being a Leo. I used to always have problems relating to that stuff, at all. The more I think about it, it's the hermit card in Tarot or the virgin, not in the sense of Virgin Mary, but the ancient virgins who were the temple priestesses.
GA: Sufficient unto themselves.
LB: Yes, and all that stuff, or Diana. A lot to do with purification, not in a puritanical sense, but in the sense of dropping all the garbage so you can get on with it.

The Hermit card signifies introspection, the practice of solitude to focus on one's inner experience, and the search for truth and clarity.
Bunning, Joan. The Big Book of Tarot : How to Interpret the Cards and Work with Tarot Spreads for Personal Growth, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2019.

GA: Did you tell me that you had read that book about the myths that have to do with astrology? What is it called, God Herself? Oh, you've got to look at that. I'll show it to you when you get back. [unintelligible 00:13:31]
[pause 00:13:34]
LB: Oh, this is nice. I knew it. This is an interesting piece of trivia. I was teaching an astrology class once, at the full moon actually, and--
GA: You were teaching an astrology class?
LB: Yes.
GA: Oh, I'd like to take a class from you. [crosstalk]
LB: [unintelligible 00:14:05]
GA: Are you going to-
LB: I don't do-- I have a friend, though, in New York, they moved to New York [unintelligible 00:14:08] who teaches-- I don't know if she's teaching it at the moment, but she's going to begin at some point, I'm sure, teaches an astrology class. She's a very good astrologer. She's a Sag with a moon in Pisces. She's a lovely person, and she's really good. She teaches here and there. She's good. I would recommend her, because I'm not doing it. I have evenings where I get into it. I sat down and gave Meg and Julia an astrology class for two hours one morning. It was really fun.
GA: Did they like that?
LB: Yeah, they loved it. [unintelligible 00:14:41] Anyway, in the astrology class we were talking about the different ages. You know that term of going into the age of Aquarius? Each one is 2,000 years long. We were talking about that-- and they go backwards. It's the age we're in is Pisces now, going to Aquarius, and before that was Aries and before that was Taurus. It's interesting in terms of when you think about-- The Arian age was Greek and Roman, the barbarians and everybody killing everybody, else which is very Aries stuff, the age of the heroes. Then Pisces is the age of the martyrs. We were thinking about all this stuff.
GA: Jesus Christ.
LB: Yes. Taurus astrologically would make sense. These people also, I found that afterwards, came up with this theory that Taurus was the age of the matriarchy, fertility and all that stuff.

GA: Well, there's a book that you might be interested in. It's called Green Paradise Lost.
LB: No, never heard of it.
GA: It's by this woman named Dodson. She talks about how we're at the cusp and how we might have Aquarian ideals but operating from a Piscean perspective, so you end up with all the spiritual and occult stuff that is for self-interest rather than for-- It's really interesting [unintelligible 00:16:20]--
LB: That makes sense. Anyway, a woman in my class also came up with that theory that seems like it makes sense to me. Victorian.
GA: Victorian age.
LB: What about the age of Gemini? It was [unintelligible 00:16:38] [laughter]
LB: I don't know if they were [unintelligible 00:16:41] Anyway. [unintelligible 00:16:49]

GA: You're probably tired.
LB: [unintelligible 00:16:52]
GA: Maybe you'd like to finish off by talking about maybe in the broad strokes about Uranus, because that seems to be-- It was such a shocker to hear you say that because it would have never dawned on me.
LB: That it was important?
GA: Yes, that it was important in the chart, because as far as I knew there was just that--
LB: Yes, it's interesting, because usually unless there's certain aspects or placement or something unusual going on with that planet, it's not a very important planet in people's charts, unless they'd doing a lot of spiritual disciplines, which is different. If people are heading into spiritual stuff then the outer planets are more involved, because they have to do with that. Otherwise people who are living normal, everyday sorts of lives, usually those planets are not very important. They're much more important by generation. On your chart I wonder where the aspects of [unintelligible 00:17:50] There's the [unintelligible 00:17:53] Mars, there's the sextile, there's that little triangle, there's conjunct. That's an interesting conjunction, too.
GA: What, Saturn and-- Oh, I hadn't thought of that as loose.
LB: It's loose, but it makes it-- [unintelligible 00:18:21] [silence]

GA: This is trine Sun?
LB: Yes. It's trining your Sun and it's trining your Mars. It's not the most important planet in your chart, but it's important. It's important mostly by aspect, all those aspects. These two trines and that sextile. They're all numerous aspects, too. Has it got any squares? Yes, and it is square your nodes. The only aspects you count to the node are squares.
GA: So Uranus square nodes?
LB: Squares, conjunctions and oppositions, those are the only ones that count. It's not considered a bad or difficult aspect when it's square to the nodes, usually. I don't know. People argue back and forth about that. Some people do consider it difficult. Some people would read a square from this to the nodes as being a little bit out of sync with the times in either direction, either being a little bit ahead of the times or a little bit-- Probably ahead if it's Uranus, Uranus is always ahead, but being a little bit ahead of your world so that there's always-- It makes it difficult and exciting at the same time, because it tends for people to think you're a little off the walls sometimes.
GA: Sí. Yes. [laughs]
LB: Yes, you're [unintelligible 00:20:02]
GA: Yes.
LB: At least 20 years ahead of yourself.
GA: [chuckles]

LB: Ahead of the rest of us. Those are the things that make a focal in your chart, but what it means is-- Actually, I should look up more about Uranus and the 6th house, because it's such an unusual combination and the energy is very different in-- It's 6th house. Uranus being this very explosive, very-- I almost think of Uranus having this incredible sense of humor, almost. It's a very jester-like planet in you.
GA: In such a serious house.
LB: The 6th house is such a serious house, and such a discipline, real, creating a sense of ritual about your life and very much evenly-- Everything is very ritualized and spaced. Uranus is all just explosion and very fast and very impulsive. It's an interesting combination. Anyways. What I think it means is that stuff about– First, there's also a thing of a tendency to get sudden illnesses.
GA: Oh, yeah. Near death once. [laughs]
LB: But fast. All of sudden. It's like you're fine one day, you're dying the next day, and that things.
GA: Sí.
LB: Also to get over them fast, often, or to get strange illnesses. That kind of thing. It's also the house of the body [unintelligible 00:21:41]
GA: The 6th house?
LB: Yeah. The body. It has lots to do with health and stuff, in general, the 6th house. It's [unintelligible 00:21:51] the body as temple. It's real 6th house kind of thing. It has lots to do with health and healing, and also with work and [unintelligible 00:22:06] [crosstalk]
GA: I can't believe it. Everything you're saying is just so right on.
LB: Oh, good.

The 6th House relates to the interconnectedness of one's work life and their physical, mental, and social health.
Uranus in the 6th House indicates a person who is a creative thinker, who also requires a great deal of independence in the process and output of their work.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: Yeah. The thing about the body as temple and this whole thing about healing my body that I've been doing for two years now, it's like everything--
LB: Another thing about that, though, is in terms of Uranus being this planet of real sharp, fast insight, you should, especially in terms of physical stuff, you should really trust your impulsive, "I need to stop eating this," "I need to do this now." Whenever you get a sudden, "I need to do" whatever, in terms of your body, you should believe it.
GA: You should believe it.
LB: You should pay attention.
GA: Yeah, I don't do that when I need to rest. When I feel tired I say, "I should go to bed," and I keep on working. That's fouling me up.
LB: It's not only just you think you need to do something, but it's more sort of like if you were walking through the store someday, and you all of a sudden realized that you really needed something, and it just came out of nowhere and you had no idea where that thought came from, you know it's a Uranian thing.
GA: I need tomatoes.
LB: Yes. I go through this things sometimes of all of a sudden it's like, "I know it's time to change this," and then just [snaps finger] all of a sudden, and that kind of-- Another thing is that in terms of your work, your work hours are always going to be a little bit strange. You're working all night kind of things, right?
GA: Did you want a cigarette?
LB: I have them somewhere around here.

Title: Alternative medicine/healing information | Location: Box: 3 | Folder: 6

GA: Because either I would get up very, very early or I wouldn't go to sleep at all or I do what I do now, which is to stay up until six or seven o'clock.
LB: You don't have to worry about getting stuck in any nine to five office job for 20 years, either.
GA: Oh, really?
LB: It's just not in your chart.
GA: [laughs]
LB: It just will not happen.
GA: I refuse to do shift work.
LB: You will find another way to do things, and you won't-- You won't be able to stand it, basically. You don't have to worry about yourself sliding into it, because you won't be able to stand it.
GA: I have never been able to. I hate those kinds of jobs, unless I have a lot of flexibility.
LB: You won't be able to do it. You'll get around it, too. You realize you can get there. It's fine. At the last minute something will come up. All of a sudden, there'll be some other opportunity.

GA: What about the financial aspect? I had never been worried about money as I have been about money for the past couple of months. People always tell me, "Oh, well." Not to worry about money, that it's going to be there when I need it. They all say it. Where did they get that? Where did they get that?
LB: Probably your Jupiter in the 8th house, partly. It helps. You shouldn't be surprised if people give you money. You're likely to have people give you money sometimes when you really need it.
GA: It's happened, yes.
LB: Very possible. In some strange way, it doesn't really make sense, 8th house has to do with other people's money. Taurus has to do with your own money. 2nd house Taurus, your own money. 8th house has to do with other people's money. You have your Jupiter there, which is the planet of expansion and good luck and fortune. It pulls you through. Money from other people will descend on you in these lucky streaks or from out there somewhere.
GA: I hope it starts descending.
LB: There's nothing in your chart saying you're going to be wealthy, but it doesn't look like you're going to have a hard time of it, either. Then there's the Uranus and the 6th house is the work thing, of jobs all falling fast and out of the blue here and there. It's likely you'll get to the point where you're down to your last cent and you don't know what you're going to do, all of a sudden something will pop up.

Title: Finances, miscellaneous, 1985-2004 | Location: Box: 3 | Folder: 4

The 8th House relates to the articulation of the mysteries of life and the unknown, cyclic patterns, the transformation of states of being, or experiences that are not easily defined.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: There will be a job. What about the fact that it's ruled by Taurus in my own chart, or do you go more by the natural, which would be Virgo?
LB: You use the house cusps. It's always interesting when you've got a planet in the house that falls in a different sign from the one that's on the cusp. You got a mixed thing going on in the house. With the Taurus, it's a much more steady, stubborn, patient, material-oriented approach in the 6th house matters. On the part of you that is real conscientious and very steady about the way you're eating, it's a very Taurus-like way of dealing with things. Uranus in Gemini is just much flakier [GA laughs] and much more sporadic and much more, "I feel like doing this now, so I'm going to do this." It's a little bit--
GA: Yes, there's a lot of struggle. Sometimes I want to eat, go eat stuff with sugar.
LB: Another thing is that-- The Taurus is real self-indulgent. People who have Taurus rising-- I have Taurus rising, this doesn't fit me at all, but usually people that have Taurus rising have a really hard time keeping their weight down because they like to eat so much. It's really into sensual pleasures.
GA: You don't have that problem?
LB: No, I guess not. Not at this particular moment, anyway. It goes into dancing, massage, that kind of stuff. It's [unintelligible 00:27:27] but it's a visionary planet. The stuff about healing, about fast insight into [unintelligible 00:27:37]

GA: What is the “DT” over here?
LB: I think what that means is that it just went direct. What happens is that when the planets switch from retrograde to direct or direct to retrograde, there's a period in which they slow down markedly, and then they go again. There's like a shifting of the gears and they slow down a lot. Different people make different things about it being more-- I don't even know what to do with it, but I know that there's something about--
GA: It came up right when on the shift point or after the shift. That's funny, because I talk a lot about this shift in perspective in my essay.
LB: It's interesting. That's Uranus kind of stuff. Uranus is like-- it's like a kaleidoscope. You turn the kaleidoscope and the whole thing changes. That's Uranus kind of stuff. All of a sudden something happens, and the way the world looks to you is suddenly completely rearranged, all the pieces are in different places, and your perspective on something changes very fast and very radically. It's very Uranian.
It's going to be really interesting when it goes [unintelligible 00:28:54] I think it'll be a nice point, too. The Neptune stuff you can probably do without-- You can't do without it. It's there and you should deal with it. It's probably good for you, but it's not easy. The Uranus stuff, I think, will be fun. Traumatic in moments, but it's--
GA: Isn't it happening now, though?
LB: Yeah. I mean, it's there. I don't know exactly where.
GA: What does this--
LB: It's somewhere in Sag. No, that's Uranus. Neptune. When was this done?
GA: This was done last May.

Uranus represents change, revolution, independence, and individual power.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

LB: Last night Neptune was in the first house. Probably had been there for at least-- I don't know, sometime within last year it went into the first house. Sometime around the time [unintelligible 00:29:43] started looking more confusing in terms of what you want-- The whole thing I was talking to about that Neptune transit being a time when it's really hard to get a handle on who you are in relation to other people and how you want to be putting yourself out there in the world.
GA: You don't think it's happening now?
LB: Yes, it is happening now. It's just that it started then.
GA: It's going to stay there for a little while?
LB: It's going to stay in your 1st house for approximately 11 years, but it's most intense now because it's [unintelligible 00:30:15]. Oh, good. This will tell us. [silence] Somewhere in here there will be a-- I'm not sure. [unintelligible 00:30:30] What's today?
GA: January [crosstalk]--
LB: [unintelligible 00:30:38] Just checking [unintelligible 00:30:40] The moon is an Aries. Yes, [unintelligible 00:30:43] It really felt in Aries last night, and everyone was dancing through all hours of the [unintelligible 00:30:50]
GA: Oh, yeah, and I was able to do all those pages of writing.
LB: Well, your moon is in Aries. It's an interesting time for you when it's in Aries. You'd be writing from a much less conscious, "This is what I'm going to do now," and a much more rush of energy that you're not quite sure where it's coming from.
GA: Yes, I was flabbergasted, because usually I just do what I have to do.

LB: Yes, yes, that would make sense. [unintelligible 00:31:21] I always have a difficult time when the moon is in my 12th house. Moon in the 12th house always feels to me like premenstrual time, or almost at something and not quite there yet.
GA: The moon is in your 12th house right now?
LB: Yes, actually, it's in my 12th house. It wasn't yesterday. It's going to be today and tomorrow, and it will go into my first house sometime [unintelligible 00:32:02]
GA: The moon right now is in my 5th house. Is that right?
LB: Which is also the house of creativity and self-expression, an especially fortuitous time to write. The easiest moons for you are, let me see, in Aries-- Oh, there's some tension there, too. The beginning of Aries is hard for you a little bit, sometimes.
GA: Oh, yeah. I get very out of sorts.
LB: Because it's opposing your sun, and the later part of Aries [unintelligible 00:32:46] today, actually. Sunday. [unintelligible 00:32:54].

GA: When was the moon in Pisces?
LB: It was in Pisces at New Year's, actually.
GA: Yes, that's when I have a hard time. It's like everything is so big.
LB: Actually, it went into Aries on New Year's-- Just before New Year's it went into Aries, which is odd.
GA: Well, then that's when I was having a hard time. Yes, that's when I was having a hard time.
GA: Now it's in Aries. [unintelligible 00:33:22] Well, now it's moving [unintelligible 00:33:24], which is going to be luminous. It's difficult when it's– Cancer moon is a hard moon for me, and Capricorn moon is a hard moon for me.
GA: I noticed that Capricorn is hard.
LB: Cancer, not as much, because at some point in the later part of Cancer it transits with Jupiter, which is nice. The early part of Cancer is a drag, because it squares your sun and with Mars.

GA: In a few days it'll go into Taurus, the moon?
LB: [unintelligible 00:33:55] it goes into Taurus [unintelligible 00:33:57] very early in the morning.
GA: That's very interesting because, see, I had kept up with the houses and the planets, but I hadn't kept up with the moon and the houses. That's really interesting.
LB: Yes, it's interesting. [unintelligible 00:34:13] It makes a big difference. People of suns in Cancer or moons in Cancer or a lot of stuff in Cancer or in some other way have a very strong moon feel the moon cycles much more than other people. A lot depends on your char. Depending on what planets are pronounced in your chart to start off with, different transits will hit you stronger than they would other people. I feel the moon transits pretty strongly because [unintelligible 00:34:43] I feel the sun transits real strongly. You would feel Jupiter transits a lot and Venus transits a lot.
GA: Like my friend Randy has his moon in the 10th house, and he's always very keenly aware of the moon.
LB: What sign is it in?
GA: Moon in Virgo.
LB: A strong [unintelligible 00:35:20]. Yes. I have a friend with a moon in Cancer, and we sat down, we were working with her chart once and-- No, she's got sun in Cancer, moon in Virgo. We figured out, and it was real interesting, it helped her a lot. We figured out that-- I sat down and started telling her which moons would be difficult for her and which moons wouldn't, and she was like, "I go through this every month." It was like, once she got used to the idea that that was happening, it was like the times-- there were three signs in a row that were all real difficult for her, and every month she would go through a week that was just the pits.
Once she got used to the fact that, yes, okay, that's happening and it's going to pass in three days, it was much more manageable to her because she would just be incredibly depressed, and it would drag on. It wasn't just even a two and a half day one. It was seven, eight days in a row it would be rough for her, and once she got used to the idea that, yes, that was going to happen, it was more manageable.

GA: That doesn't happen with my chart, does it? Just for the moon?
LB: Your moon is not that heavy duty in your chart. There are some moons that are more difficult for you than others, and they're not sequential. They're not one right after the other.
GA: That's good. [laughs]
LB: Yes, you have a rough time with Capricorn. Capricorn's probably the worst. Capricorn, early Cancer. Capricorn, especially early Capricorn. The early part of Aries. Those are the lousy ones.
GA: Oh, yes. Today I went into my second house.
LB: Oh, that's interesting. Your financial situation will probably get a little better.
GA: I hope so.
LB: At least you'll be paying more attention to it. We know that much. All right, so tell me where [unintelligible 00:37:06] [pause 00:37:09]

LB: Almost always somewhere in these things they have just a little diagram of where everything is at the moment. [unintelligible 00:37:28].
GA: I also have the-- You know the Shambhala astrological calendar?
LB: You have that?
GA: I have it right over my desk.
LB: Do you have one with [unintelligible 00:37:41]? I don't know that one.
GA: I don't know. I got this for Christmas. Every year I get one, and this year I got one given to me.
LB: [unintelligible 00:38:00] You've got everything in here [unintelligible 00:38:19] [crosstalk]
GA: They have an ephemeris.
LB: Oh, they do?
GA: I think they have one for each.
LB: This is for this year?
GA: Yes, this is January.

LB: [unintelligible 00:38:27] Here we go. Oh, I can do--Mirtha has been asking me to do her transits [unintelligible 00:38:32]. Okay.
You should write this-- Oh, you have some tape? You want to know what these tr--I'll tell you what all these transits are.
GA: I lost my pen.
LB: You should write these down because [unintelligible 00:38:47].
GA: I don't know what I did with my pen. Oh, here it is. Can you see?
LB: Yes. Sun is 15 degrees Capricorn. [unintelligible 00:39:06].
GA: What do I write?
LB: Sun is 17 degrees Capricorn. Moon is 10 degrees Aries. Mercury is 26 degrees Capricorn. Venus is eight degrees Aquarius retrograde. Mars is 8 degrees Libra. Jupiter is six and a half degrees Scorpio. Saturn is one and a half degrees Libra. Mars is three degrees Sagittarius. [unintelligible 00:40:21] Neptune is 14 degrees Sagittarius. [unintelligible 00:40:34] Pluto is 27 degrees Libra. [unintelligible 00:40:50] Assuming that your chart is exactly accurate, it's hard to assume. It's not going to [unintelligible 00:41:06]
GA: What, Uranus? Oh, so the big change will be-- God, that's exciting.
LB: You just have Neptune to [unintelligible 00:41:13] Neptune is going to go back over there soon. [unintelligible 00:41:18] Neptune is-- It's pretty close to your [unintelligible 00:41:22] What did I tell you? I have the degrees wrong. What did I tell you on Neptune?
GA: 14 degrees Sag.

LB: [unintelligible 00:41:37] So it's moving along there. Okay, what did I just tell you? I'm [unintelligible 00:41:50]
GA: I'm already into Capricorn.
LB: Well, this is by transit. That's different from progression.
GA: Oh, okay.
LB: That's where the sun is right now, as opposed to-- When you do a progression, what you do is, it's like you're taking your own chart and moving it through time, as opposed to just where they are right now and how they're hitting your chart
GA: I forget that--
LB: The progression is much more internal, your own chart moved along. How you're moving along in your own life, as opposed to what they're doing and how it's affecting you.
GA: Sí, I forget that.
LB: The sun is in your 2nd house. The moon is in your 4th house. That's interesting. There's a lot more emotional attachment going on to your own space.
GA: Oh, yeah. I'm having all that, yeah.
LB: Just in the last [unintelligible 00:42:53]
GA: Yeah, when Sonia and Mirtha came back, it was almost like I resented the fact that-- I was glad they were back, but it took me a day or so to adjust.

LB: Yes. [unintelligible 00:43:14]
GA: Right now?
LB: Yes. It's going backwards, so [unintelligible 00:43:37] Mars is in your 10th house. [unintelligible 00:43:46] Jupiter is your 9th house. [unintelligible 00:43:54] Jupiter is in your 10th house. Saturn is in the 10th house.
GA: Are they going to stay there for the rest of the month, you think?
LB: Yes. I mean, well some of them will. Saturn-- As you move out along this way, they get slower. Mercury is the fastest. No, the moon is the fastest. Mercury and the sun are almost the same. I think Mercury's moving a little bit faster, and then Venus, Mars, Jupiter. Saturn will be in that house for a while. Even the Jupiter [unintelligible 00:44:44].
GA: That'll be a lot of energy.
LB: Which one?
GA: With all those in the 10th house.
LB: Yeah. A lot of 10th house coming up.
Yes, a lot of energy for your-- The stuff on you having a lot invested in wanting to make an effect on the world, there's a lot of energy for that. However you have chosen to do that, which I assume is you're writing, there's a lot of energy for that right now and a lot of stuff going on [unintelligible 00:45:13].
[sound cut]
[00:45:32] [END OF AUDIO]

Lisa Biow: In terms of figuring out the [inaudible 00:00:04] There have different energies coordinated into one. Of the different planets, all the different aspects of your own energy, and how to use it, and different parts of yourself. How those are related to each other. Whether there's a smooth connection between things, or they'll clash.
Gloria Anzaldúa: That's what is meant by bad aspect or good aspect?
LB: Right.
GA: People use that.
LB: That's a lousy way to put it because it's not a matter of bad. There's the harmonious and the unharmonious aspects. The harmonious ones are the trines and the sextiles. The disharmonious ones are the squares and the oppositions, and conjunctions are neutral.
Also, the [unintelligible 00:00:53] is a little bit difficult. Actually, it's probably better, probably the easiest way-- I think the best way to think about them is fluid and difficult, or fluid and stressful.
Conjunction is neutral, although it's a very powerful aspect, it's not really one way or the other. A lot depends on other aspects that are going on, and when the placements are, and that kind of thing. Anyway, the reason why I don't like to think of them in terms of good or bad is, people who have-- I've seen charts of people who have all trines and sextiles, and it doesn't work out very well. It can, depending what your life is about and what you want to be doing.
Things come so easy that it's hard to really move to another plane with anything because you're not challenged. You don't run up against a block that makes you jump to something higher. Squares and oppositions make you do that, it's like some war with yourself that generates a tremendous amount of energy.
GA: That makes sense.
LB: That can give you an amazing amount of [unintelligible 00:02:07] to do something, but [crosstalk]
GA: You have to be dissatisfied with something before you would want to change it.
LB: Right, and also the sparks, the clash.
GA: They're both necessary.
LB: That's why I don't like to look at it, it's more like challenges and blessings. Anyway, that's basically-- There's also, in terms of the different aspects, very briefly, the conjunction is the two planets above, and the conjunction are just very much connected to each other, and they feed each other tremendously in some way. Anyway, men need to strengthen each other.
GA: Like my Sun and Mars.
LB: [unintelligible 00:03:06].
GA: I know, that's funny that they should be together because that's a lot of force.
LB: It's a lot of force. Yes, you have a lot of energy to do stuff. When I say it's neutral, that's the most neutral of the aspects, in that it's a tremendous amount of energy, a lot of initiative, a lot of, ""This is what I want,"" and then they go do it, stuff. Which can be, depending on how you use that, can be wonderful, or can lead to real rashness, jumping into things too fast, being oblivious to other people's needs sometimes. Really and that depends on other aspects. Depends on what you do with it.

Title: Astrological and I Ching readings | Location: Box: 5 | Folder: 4

GA: I don't think I use my time well because I get tired.
LB: Yes, and also your tendency is to jump into things, sometimes. Work real, real hard and burn out. It is a burnout aspect altogether, tremendous amounts of energy. You really do have tremendous amounts of energy, but you can have trouble disciplining it. Spreading it out over time, conserving it and then--
GA: I've been working to do that for years, to get that kind of discipline. It's been a lot of work.
LB: Even just physically, of saying, "Okay I've done enough for today," and stopping, so you're not wiped out for the next week, but it's also wonderful in terms of just-- It lends a certain fierceness and physical charge to your sense of what you want to do in the world. When you decide you want to do something, the energy is there. It's not like you have to work to get motivated on stuff, [crosstalk] the discipline.
GA: Yes, well what does the fact that Neptune is also so close to that, what does that mean?
LB: Neptune has conjuncture Sun, it's not really, well loosely conjuncture Mars. Sexually, it does make it as a conjunction. There's something called orbs, which is the amount of variance off the exact angle that you still count as that angle. They're different for the different aspects, and they're also different depending on which planets they are. Also, different astrologists disagree on how much [unintelligible 00:05:43] on that. Usually, you allow a larger orb when it's one of the inner planets, it's one of the outer planets. The inner planets being anything from Saturn on in, and the outer planets from Saturn on out. Neptune is one of the real-- It's too past Saturn and Mars as one.
This side of Saturn, so that would be a larger orb, and the conjunction is a pretty large [unintelligible 00:06:08] 8 to 10 degrees. Anything which falls within 10 degrees of each other, especially if it's with one of the lights, sun or the moon, or if it's inner and an outer planet, [unintelligible 00:06:21] towards that. I don't know, it just [unintelligible 00:06:25] settling phase. Actually no, I meant conjuncture, this is almost 30, so [unintelligible 00:06:30] between 6 and more an 8, so it really is a conjunction. Anyway, the Neptune-sun conjunction, Neptune is a lot of that psychic stuff.
How that goes into your sun, is first of all, that's really connected to your sense of self. There's two things going on. In some way, that kind of energy is connected with your own identity and your own idea for who you are, and what you want to do in the world. On the other hand, it's generally a pretty good indication of having some ability in that area. Of having psychic resources that [unintelligible 00:07:14] into.
GA: Well, I better start developing.
LB: Yes, it's there. When you're looking for that psychic, spiritual. Spiritual is not-- It is real spiritual, but it's different things on the chart that within it gets spiritual kinds of energy, and all very different types. Neptunian type of spirituality is very fluid, oceanic, and vague sometimes. It's the pitfalls with all the Neptunian stuff is drugs. It's in fantasy, getting lost in fantasy.
GA: I've done drugs.
LB: Yes, it's a drug thing. It's such an incredible craving for mystical stuff that if you have trouble finding them in your real life, you tend to create it artificially.
GA: I think I do that too.
LB: Yes, but yes, a real rich fantasy life. What else with Neptune? By contrast, something, Scorpio, eighth house, Pluto's type spirituality is a very different- - It's much more occult, much more overwhelming. Neptune is overwhelming in a sense of drowning, but Pluto is like a volcano. It's more occult, it's more explosive. Not fast explosive, but turn your life upside down, everything you ever thought is not going to work anymore. Spirituality, throw it all out the window and start all over. It's very much about upheaval in terms of formation and real, powerful, concentrated, overwhelming stuff. Whereas Neptune is much more diffuse.

GA: Do you know if Scorpio is going to go into Scorpio in the next [crosstalk]?
LB: Yes, and it's a very heavy astrological thing. It takes Pluto, I can't remember calculus. It spends approximately 20 years in this sign, and so it affects whole generations, and it's very interesting stuff. You look historically at the different Pluto transits, it's when Pluto was in Cancer, was the Depression. When Pluto was in Leo was the discovery of atomic energy, and when it was in Virgo was drugs, all the drug culture stuff. Lots of people getting into health stuff, all of a sudden. It sounds like an incredible transformation of consciousness in some way in relation to that particular area.
GA: It's going to be--
LB: Libra is like feminism and relationship stuff. Feminism. When it goes into Scorpio, it's supposed to be the apocalypse, basically.
GA: Oh, yes.
LB: It gets very intense. 1984, actually, Orwell was into astrology, and he picked that date.
GA: I see. I talk about this in my essay a little bit.
LB: It goes into 1984. It should be very heavy.
GA: It stays until the year 2000.
LB: Yes. The world's shortest transit, which is interesting because there's one line about the apocalypse in the Bible. About, unless these times be short, all is lost, or something like that. It's the shortest transit up until now. It's in Scorpio. Anyway, yes, it's very heavy. Certainly, very interesting times we live through, even if you don't know [unintelligible 00:11:17].

During its orbit, Pluto occupies each sign of the zodiac for an average of 21 years, resulting in a 248-year long orbit through the entire zodiac. Because of these long transits, Pluto's placement is interpreted to more strongly describe generations, rather than individuals. The shift of Pluto from one sign to another is said to mark deep transformations in humanity.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: There's another sign that's going to be also in Scorpio.
LB: Yes, there's a thing going on. I can't remember exactly when it happens. It's the lineup. I'm not sure if it's in Scorpio or in Sag. It's a lineup of four of the outer planets exactly in alignment at some point in the next few years, which is another just-- Things like every time there's a lineup of any two of the major planets, something really incredible happens. Every time that Jupiter and Pluto, I think, have lined up, the president who has then been in office, has been killed in office. It's like, oh, it's weird. When the outer planets line up, it's intense. Four of them, that never happens. [unintelligible 00:12:05]
GA: It's happening in '82, I think, but I don't know which ones.
LB: I remember somebody once was trying to explain this stuff to me. They told me that things were supposed to get heavy in '80, much heavier in '82, and shit hits the fan in '84.
GA: Oh. [chuckles]
LB: It's like we're going to live through it. It's [unintelligible 00:12:27] very rough timing. The other side of that is the Aquarian Age and also Pluto going into Sagittarius, which will be a transformation in terms of philosophy, politics, and grand belief systems. A new age.
GA: It's exactly what I'm writing about. [laughs] I have to show you my essay when I get done.

LB: It's amazing because when I talk to people who-- My friend, Anne, who is into astrology into a lot of different spiritual stuff. She's such a strange combination. She's a lawyer, and very meticulous about her law. She's not the kind of person who you would think would be into this stuff at all- [crosstalk]
GA: Into astrology.
LB: -but she's completely into it. We just sit around and talk about it, and she's like, such an incredible thing to think that, yes, we know this is going to happen. We know it's going to happen in the next four years and to try and imagine how you can prepare for this is overwhelming, but I'm sort of psyched. [laughter] I think it'll be real interesting. Anyway, that's the generational stuff. The third planet sun house-- Planet that's connected with spiritual stuff I think is Uranus, which is very fast. It's like flash of light. The way the images was, Neptune is like the ocean to me. It's like a tidal wave. Pluto is a volcano, and Uranus is a lightning bolt.
GA: Wow.
LB: Very fast, your world turns upside down. Whenever this heavy Uranus stuff goes on, everything just gets turned on its head. It happens very fast, and it's very disorienting, and it's very exciting. It's not like the slow rumble of Pluto. It's much more like zap. Forget everything you learn [unintelligible 00:14:31] It's exciting, and it's sort of like speaking in tongues kind of thing. Something hits you and you know something. It's like when you're doing something and, all of a sudden, you just know something. You have no idea where you know it from. That's Uranus, obviously.
Uranus is the planet right after Saturn. Saturn has a lot to do with your self-concept, but your self-concept in terms of your own limitations, your idea of this is where I stop. Like your structure in a sometimes positive way, but in also a very limiting way. There's a certain rigidity involved in Saturn. Wherever Saturn falls, and whatever the aspects are, whatever issues are going on with Saturn for you are, the things that you really need to work out in order to move on to spiritual stuff in a lot of ways.

Uranus represents change, revolution, independence, and individual power.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

GA: It has to do with the companion relationships.
LB: Right. It's also like relationship stuff and figuring out relationship stuff is an incredibly profound thing for you. It's like wherever Saturn falls is an area that is in some way restricted, does not come easy. It's like the lessons that you have to learn. There's a lot about what you have to learn, what you have to work out. Assuming that you do when you get it together, you are richer and more wise in that area than anyone else is, but it's a struggle anyway, so let me know.
GA: Does the point of fortune have anything to do with the fact that it's in the same house as Saturn?
LB: It's not a conjunct. It would make a difference if it was conjunct. There's no conjunct.
GA: So that you want to say--

LB: There's [unintelligible 00:16:37] after Saturn but [unintelligible 00:16:39] I'll mention it now, in case I forget it. Your Saturn is a retrograde.
GA: I see.
LB: A retrograde Saturn. One of the things that means is that, in some ways, you don't have a real strong sense of boundaries. This is where I end. Real sense of, this is who I am in the world, and this is where I'm going. It's self-limitation in a way that gives you strength. In a way, it's both a plus and a minus. It's a plus in that it makes it easier for you to reach out beyond that. It makes it harder in that it's sometimes very hard for you to get a handle on where you end, where other people begin, and where your responsibility to other people ends. Also, in terms of psychic stuff, it means that you need to consciously develop psychic protection because the world rushes in when you align.
GA: It does.
LB: You don't have that automatic stopping point with it, and you can get a little overwhelmed because you don't filter it out. Everything just comes in and hits you so fast.
GA: Mirtha's the same way.
LB: Yes. Which is good in terms of the way you seem to be setting up your life now, when you spend a lot of time alone and you do your work. It's like the perfect way to deal with that kind of way.
GA: [chuckles] It's taken me all my lifetime. It's taken me all these years.
LB: It's like perfect. You have to make your own space, find your own path, and guard it in some ways. You got to cherish it to the point where you don't let the whole world flood in on you, overwhelm you all the time. It's particularly psychic, other people's psychic energies that are overloading their circles.
GA: So true.

Title: Conversation at Mirtha's, 1981 September 27 | Box: 154 | Item: 8** | Extent: [mp3 #077]

LB: It's like I'm lost and [unintelligible 00:18:43] The other part of this conjunction here it is Neptune, Mars, which is a healing aspect.
GA: Oh, yes? I didn't know that.
LB: Physical healing, "laying on of hands" kinds of stuff, so that in some ways, part of the expression or part of the way that you get in touch with that particular kind of psychic stuff is very physical. Mars is a very physical energy, kind of. That's what it's about. How you express yourself physically in your world. So either, healing, laying on of hands stuff, or just that you get that psychic insights into other people or the world or whatever will be felt by you on a very physical level, and you will feel it in your body. As opposed to just singing or seeing images or whatever, you will feel it.
GA: Your body feels everything. It takes it on. Whenever I got into fights with people, I would want to throw up. That kind of thing. I did get into psychic healing where there is some touching.
LB: We've got great stuff for doing stuff, I mean between that aspect and [unintelligible 00:20:06] sixth house, and there is a real potential to know what is going wrong with people physically especially.

The 6th House relates to the interconnectedness of one's work life and their physical, mental, and social health.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

Title: Psychic material (herbs, gems, dreams, etc.) | Location: Box: 4 | Folder: 8

GA: I always wanted to
LB: [unintelligible 00:20:17]
GA: -to do it through my writing. I don't know if that--
LB: Sure, the last time that we [unintelligible 00:20:26]. All right, yes. It's also, I think might be good that somethings are into [unintelligible 00:20:41]. It's some sort of physical discipline or martial art, massage, anything.
GA: I've taken massage classes, but I do need to take some martial arts.
LB: It will be real good training for you [unintelligible 00:21:05].
GA: Maybe when I get to New York I can do that.
LB: I think it will be good. [coughs]
GA: Do you want some water?
LB: Yes. I think it will be good in terms of do you want to get more in touch with your physical side, the psychic energy stuff. I think doing it through some sort of physical discipline is a good choice.

GA: I need to do that because I got in touch with my body, I was talking to Meg, because of having had the problems with my sexuality. The body just being very ill.
LB: When did that happen?
GA: I started having a period when I was three months old, so it's all my life. When I was little we had to do farmwork and I always hated it because it was like being an animal [unintelligible 00:22:03] labor. I was willing to do head stuff and not in an office where there's air condition, so that the body was like- I always felt like the body was a servant rather than a [inaudible 00:22:20]. Christianity shaping the condition of this event, the flesh and the spirit and how a woman is flesh and, therefore, inferior.
LB: The only way to escape that is what you call a female [unintelligible 00:22:39]. When was the operation?
GA: It was in March 20th, 1979. No, [unintelligible 00:22:56], it will be two years this March. Was it '80?

LB: I was wondering, we need to look at the aspect [inaudible 00:23:14]. Anyway, [unintelligible 00:23:24] 10 pounds, having all that stuff is that it's a lot of ambition. Not in the sense of wanting to be rich and famous but in the sense of wanting to make an effect on the world.
GA: Oh, yes, I've always felt very strongly.
LB: Something else like not an important part of your life, that's real important to you. It's much more important to you than it is to a lot of people. It's a sense of, you will not be happy with yourself to just sit or lay back and let things happen to you. Some sense of wanting to make a difference. We wanted to make a real effect on some community of some sort.
It's interesting because all the clients that fall in there and is the sun which is a sense of yourself and what you want to be doing in the world. There is Neptune, there is Venus, and there is Mars. Neptune is like aesthetics and love of beauty and harmony and all that. Neptune is the psychic stuff and Mars is just like physical energy. It seems my immediate take on that is the stuff that you-- It kind of affect you and your make on the world is real positive.
GA: Oh, yes.
LB: It's not manipulative, wanting to be a hard shift kind of thing. It's much more wanting-- You know, you feel what's inside of you and you want to put that out there, it's more like wanting to give something to the world as opposed to wanting the world to do something to you.
GA: You know that [unintelligible 00:25:17] comes up from you a lot is the gentle penetration of the wind which is-- It's not like making a big splash, it's just a steady gradual, continuous effect.
LB: Yes. [unintelligible 00:25:43] to ask us [inaudible 00:25:43] [crosstalk]
GA: [unintelligible 00:25:45]

LB: I think of Venus or Mercury in your own [unintelligible 00:25:52] [pause 00:25:56]
GA: You might have stayed in that path that I gave you.
LB: [inaudible 00:26:12] Yes, I did. [unintelligible 00:26:15]. [pause 00:26:16] I mean that's [unintelligible 00:26:38] about your Mercury.
GA: [inaudible 00:26:41]
[pause 00:26:42]
LB: [inaudible 00:26:55]
GA: You also said something on [unintelligible 00:27:09] 11th house.
LB: Right, yes, I was going to say [inaudible 00:27:13] wrong position.
GA: Oh, yes.
LB: [unintelligible 00:27:26]. Okay, Mercury in 11th house is-- Mercury is certainly the way that you-- Let's say you process informations [unintelligible 00:27:45], you think how almost everyone has their own particular grid that you take the [unintelligible 00:27:53] instrument that you express yourself out there to. That's like your Mercury. Just even on how you put information together. It's interesting because if you need to do chart comparisons. People who have Mercury square to each other have a really hard time communicating [unintelligible 00:28:14]. It's interesting.
GA: Really?
LB: Yes, I want to have that with my lover actually. It's very funny, we'll try. Just even talking intellectually about stuff.
GA: I see.
LB: We misunderstand each other, we're going for hours arguing, and when you get to the end. We realize that we completely misunderstood what the other person has said. We'll be arguing politics and when we get to the end of the conversation we realize we were saying the same thing from the beginning. That kind of miscommunication happens a lot when a Mercury is [unintelligible 00:28:43]. People who have Mercury that are conjunct or tied to each other have a really easy time. These are the kind of people that you see up online talking to and just the ideas just go like this.
GA: Yes.

The 11th House relates to friendship, community, care, brotherhood, and humanitarianism.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

LB: It sounds interesting. Anyway, [unintelligible 00:28:59] 11th houses. A lot of the stuff that you're intellectually interested in and that you want to think and talk about and put together has to do with a very broad sense of humanity. Or of the people of the world kind of stuff, and a real visionary sense in terms of that. [unintelligible 00:29:27]. [laughter]
A lot of that connectivity and groups, and group process and people being able to work together. Yes, visionary stuff in terms of that. All sort of Aquarius, Uranus, have little revolutionary things in your own and that sort of-- It's also the sort of intellectual. There's a part of you that is very tied into occasionally flipping people out because they need to hear things.
GA: [laughs] Shock again.
LB: What would people need to hear, at the moment because they don't want to deal with, but they really need to [unintelligible 00:30:09].
GA: I call it, shocking them shitless.
LB: Right, and you're good at it.
GA: I don't do it very often, but I do it and then people get scared of me, like mean stuff. [chuckles]
LB: It sounds like the erroneous thing of exploding, a little explosion in somebody's consciousness, and that's why you'd go after doing that.
GA: Yes. I do. I love doing that.

LB: The other thing, at the same time though because I'm Libra, the sense of beauty is very much connected to the way that you think and also the way that you speak and the way that you write is the aesthetic sense. Is a love of language and the beauty of ideas and that kind of stuff is all really important to you. The way that you think and the way that you put ideas together has an aesthetic tinge to it altogether. You're not into information for its own sake so much as the beauty of different ways of thinking and of speaking.
GA: I'm into rhythm and pulse and image, and the form.
LB: The opposition to the moon. I really have to look that one up because I have some vague sense of it but not real clear, it's an important aspect of your chart.
GA: Especially as a Libra and Mars are also opposite.
LB: Usually, oppositions are opposite signs, the square and usually the squares. Most of the aspects that fall around the signs. The signs are square and the trines are in the two planets are in signs that are trine to each other. Sometimes it's not and there's-- Let me show you this. [unintelligible 00:32:09] [silence] These are not [unintelligible 00:32:20]

GA: Which is not conjunct?
LB: Neptune.
GA: Okay. This is Neptune
LB: Oh, not Neptune. I'm sorry, Venus [inaudible 00:32:38]
GA: A friend of mine did that. I don't know how accurate that is.
LB: This is how you draw the [unintelligible 00:32:48] squares on this [unintelligible 00:32:50]. One thing that immediately strikes me in terms of this particular opposition is there's a tension between all the stuff or the Mercury stuff I was just talking about in your moon and areas, which is very impulsive, emotional stuff. You feel something and you feel it now and you tend to say it right out there and just act very fast. That is sometimes a little bit at war with your [crosstalk] the lever, which is very into harmony and your sense of beauty and harmony and balance and all that stuff. Is a little bit at war with the emotional nature, which jumps right into everything.
This is what I think right now, and this is what's true right now, and who cares if it balances out anything and this is, whatever. There's little tension between those two. Also, that sometimes your immediate emotional reactions to things can cloud your intellectual clarity. You sometimes have to wait a little bit until the smoke clears before you can really get clear on what you think about anything [inaudible 00:34:44]
GA: That happens. That's so true.
LB: [unintelligible 00:34:49] you're romantic.
GA: I'm a romantic?
LB: Yes.
GA: Yay. Well, shit.
LB: Sorry. It's true.

GA: But also that's the house of creativity.
LB: Yes, it's great. [unintelligible 00:35:04] It also tends to mean that that's wanting to create and self-expression stuff is something that you started with real early on and from childhood, there's that.
GA: Yes, I started telling my sister stories so she would let me sleep, to shut her up. I would tell her one story then she would want to-- Oh, the thing was that if I didn't tell her a story, she would tell my mom that I was reading in bed with a flashlight. I would read to three or four, five o'clock in the morning.
LB: [laughs] That's funny.
GA: Then I started making up things very early.

The 5th House relates to self-expression, joy, playfulness, creativity, and sexuality.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

LB: That's good. The moon interests me a lot. It's the strongest planet in my chart, the sun and the moon. They're always strong in my chart. They're super strong because it's sun in Leo which is always life and six planets of Leo and then there's the moon in Pisces, single off in the planet. The moon really fascinates me in terms of, I really think it has a whole lot to do with childhood and with patterns established in childhood. A lot to do with survival mechanisms that get set up in childhood in terms of how you learn to relate, how you learn to adapt yourself to the world because it's very much about this half-conscious way of adapting to new stuff.
GA: I wish I could get rid of some of the survival mechanisms.
LB: Yours are very fast. You have to react instantly and it has a lot-- Your style of how you learn to get by in the world when you were young, it's sometimes real and applicable when you're older, so it can be a problem. It's also real interesting because how people react to dangerous or very upsetting traumatic situations, they fall back on their moon instantly. Your sun is very much more your ego and your sense of self and it doesn't really get rolling until you're older. People are much more like their moons when you're kids. You grow into your sun and your ascendant more when you have some sort of control over your life and you can start acting on your own sense of self. Before that it's much more, you have no power and you're in a position of reacting to the world and adapting to the world. The moon is much stronger.
GA: I'm much better in crises.
LB: It's a great one for crises. I have a terrible moon for crisis. Well, it depends. If it's the kind of thing where somebody else is in trouble, I'm great because it's empathy, but I've been in a situation where people-- I had a guy back me into the corner and be ready to rape me and I'm sitting there empathizing, it's like, "You can be useless." If somebody else is in trouble and fine, I'm in trouble. I would [inaudible 00:38:02] but it's interesting. I always fascinated watching people who I know really well, and so I've seen them go through like real heavy, "All right, now we have to deal with something real fast." It's like you just see them absolutely clear. You would be real fast right on there. Your only problem's you might react too fast to things without thinking. There wouldn't be any time lag and you wouldn't get thrown. You could like get right into it and deal with [inaudible 00:38:36]. It's a real different chart [inaudible 00:38:52]
GA: Oh, yes.
LB: Virgo, Scorpio [inaudible 00:38:54]
GA: Woo, heavy. [laughs]

LB: She has such a heavy chart. It's a wonderful chart. [inaudible 00:39:02] Anyway, the other thing about the moon childhood stuff, this part of the survival stuff that you developed in childhood where your style of dealing with emotional stuff in childhood was real fast. What do I want in this situation? And very much acting out of, a very immediate and very fast sense of self and that's the way that you got by.
GA: Where's the stuff? Sometimes I tend to hide things. I tend to hide my emotions when I don't vocalize them right away, very fast. I do the opposite. I hide them.
LB: That probably has more to do with the [unintelligible 00:39:52] and the aspects to probably [unintelligible 00:39:59] Although this is the expression, the emotions, and the verbal expression, is like they don't go smooth together. That's another thing about a difficult aspect, that can be a really positive thing in terms of writing. In terms of there's a need to learn how to do that, and, therefore, you would cultivate that more than someone else would.
GA: Right. There's a value in having tensions in the writing, of there being oppositions and there being a struggle between the elements. Otherwise, the thing doesn't have any vitality. You've got to do it in such a way that you can bring it off. [pause 00:40:44] [background noise]

LB: There's a wonderful astrology book on Saturn. There's very few astrology books that I would say are wonderful. It's called Saturn. It's by a woman named Liz Greene.
GA: I should get that.
LB: The whole book is about Saturn. It's very, very good. I had a copy, I should [unintelligible 00:41:15] copy. It's a terrific book.
GA: I'd like to get a copy.
LB: There's also a really nice little book called-- It's weird because it's in two sections, and one of the sections, it's just boring and terrible and glocky. The other section is really nice. I think it's just called The Four Elements, and it's by Steven O'Reilly.
GA: I think I've seen them.
LB: It's got one of the nicest descriptions of the elements I've ever seen. A really nice little thing on the planets too.
GA: I might even have that.
LB: It's real basic, but it's one of the best basic books I own. I go back to it all the time, it's wonderful.
GA: I have a lot of Dane Rudhyar.
LB: I like some of his stuff, but I don't like others.
GA: Well, sometimes he gets a little carried away with his theory and philosophy. Very abstract in some ways.
LB: It's like, "Yo, what does this mean about anybody?" It's much more like, he gets so off in the cosmic thing, it gets very hard to get any sense of what this could possibly mean in somebody's life.
GA: I see.
LB: Some of his stuff is really funny.
GA: Then the other thing I have is this [unintelligible 00:42:29] or something like that?
LB: No, no, no.
GA: [crosstalk] I don't know how good those books are.
LB: I don't think they're very good, because they're not specific enough.

GA: [unintelligible 00:42:45]
LB: That's what I think it is [unintelligible 00:42:48] [silence]
LB: [unintelligible 00:42:59] You can't help but attract the attention of the opposite sex. [crosstalk]
GA: Oh, shit. They're sexist. What about the houses that are empty? Does that mean that I don't need any help in them?
LB: Well, it means they're less emphasized. The houses that are very full or that have a lot of things going on in them or a lot of very important planets in them are much more going to be the things that you need to work on and deal with.
GA: I see.

LB: I think this is valid, a lot of the way that people look at charts is like everything that's in your chart are all these different potentials. It's very much you look at the chart in terms of the things, the potentials you have to work with, and the stuff that you're supposed to be doing this time around.
GA: Oh, I see.
LB: A lot of people go into a real heavy karmic thing with that in terms of you choose your chart, which I'm [unintelligible 00:44:05] about because the politics of that can get decidedly weird.
GA: I always wondered, I have two here. Well, actually, there's one here if you don't count that. One, and two there, four there, one here, and one here, and one here. You don't count the nodes, right?
LB: We don't count them as the nodes.
GA: So that the heavy ones are the eighth house, the tenth house?
LB: The seventh, any place you're sounding false is going to be a little heavy.
GA: Would this be heavier than that, then?
LB: Yes, it is. The most intense house in your chart is your tenth house without a doubt. That's all right. That's also a good one. That's the only one that I'm not just drawing into.
GA: What does it mean, Jupiter in my eighth house? [silence]

10th House: Placements in the 10th House refer to notions of life purpose, success, and social acknowledgement. Other associations include, "vocation and calling, public recognition, social position, fame and honor, -career, power and authority, responsibility, achievement, popularity."
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.

The 8th House relates to the articulation of the mysteries of life and the unknown, cyclic patterns, the transformation of states of being, or experiences that are not easily defined.
Banzhaf, Hajo, and Anna Haebler. Keywords for Astrology: The Essential Guide to Correspondences and Interpretation of Planets, Signs, Houses, and Aspects. Red Wheel Weiser, 2024.