Sally Gearhart: So this is one? Turn it over?
Gloria Anzaldua: Yes. That represents your interaction with Jane. Turn that over. Oh, this represents how you see Jane. This card represents her. This is great. This represents your karmic link or why you came together, what you have to learn from each other. They're beautiful. This represents your career and creativity, the receptivity. Beautiful. This is your decision-making processes, delegating duties and all that. God, you don't have any problems in that respect. The inner environmental process and the outer.
SG: Turn this one over?
GA: It doesn't really matter. In this case reverse just means that there's a greater focus on the card. It's beautiful. This is your outer environment you work with. This represents yourself, your total self in relation to all these questions and who you are and how you see yourself. Beautiful. This is your test, your lesson. What you need to breakthrough or--
SG: With swords! Ten!
GA: That's one negative card out of the whole bunch. Now the last one is the outcome card. Wow. First of all a general look at the cards, you have one, two, three, four, five trump cards. That's very unusual. Trump cards are gifts to you. Even the hangmen their energies had come to you. The royalty you have, one, two, three. The royalties are the cards that represent actually doing and acting on things. The minor arcana are potentials. Things that you can act on. These people really act on them. The queens and the princesses or defenders. The frontal people they face you, they defend. The knights and the princesses are hunters, the more aggressive kind. In your deck there are knights in the Waite deck but there're not any princesses.
SG: That's right.
GA: There're just kings, so you have to make the transition. The negative card represents thoughts or self-rule, that what you do is, you do a mental trip on yourself. The outcome card is the card of synthesis of arcana.
SG: mmh–Look at it. Amazing.

GA: What I want to do is I want to take you through the pattern and beginning with card number one which represents the interaction between you and Jane, and probably between you and the way you interact with most people. This is the queen of disks. This is the lesbian card in this deck. One of the lesbian cards in this deck. She is ruled by Aries, and there's a ram in the picture and that represents moving forward in a new direction. There are horns on her head that extend way out. That means she's looking at the past which is this desert type with an oasis in it, and she is ready to do something about beautifying her environment right now. Make it more statically pleasing. The past is a lesson that-- A process. She's looking at the past to see what she did so that the present could be made more beautiful and it can be learned from. She is the only one in the royalty cards that looks towards the past.
SG: Is that right?
GA: Ah-ha. The horns extend way out, and anything that extends out from the head in symbology represents a large consciousness, enlightenment. For example, you mentioned the star card, her hair goes all the way to the ground. That means enlightenment, consciousness stretched, growth. Helmets in this-- the Hierophant which is your second card and Again in the third card, the princess of disks has the horns. Anything people wear on their heads, helmets, hair, that means it's a process of expanding consciously in your head. She represents the disks which is a card about external reality, finances and health. In this respect she might be looking at, and you in this case might be looking at how-- not only the health of your body but also the health of the relationship in terms of with Jane. You are wanting to bring to earth certain ideas about maybe cleaning up your surroundings emotionally and also physically and it's a step with the diamond and the diamond is also another symbol for external reality for money, for earth, for manifesting. This is a symbol of bringing the power to earth or centering, manifesting whatever you want to call that. The vegetation in the background represents the fertility. Here is a desert with a little oasis, so what you want to do is you want to make the relationship more fertile. The pineapple is a symbol of fertility. Also, the goddess. Do you see the pineapple right here?
SG: mmhmm! I realize that.
GA: She is wearing a vest of, made of little coins. That means you're going to have abundance. They do have the potential to have an abundance in health and also in material wellbeing with Jane, and with the other people that you relate to. She's wearing two bracelets. In ancient Egypt if you had one bracelet it meant something. If you had two, it meant something else. If you had one up here, it meant-- They designated that the hierarchy of the teachers or how evolved the teachers were, so here both risks have bracelets. This is a highly evolved card. Mature, Very mature. Very aware of what's going on and also very centered and very tranquil, and nothing is going to sweep her off her feet. She's like real centered, content, she knows what she wants, she knows herself and she's just like emotionally there.
SG: Good! Good.
GA: Basically the message is to do something aesthetically pleasing about your surroundings and take care of your health and also maybe go out and buy a dress or cut your hair. It's a card that says it's time to beautify your-- or get something for her to do that. Do you have any questions about this card?
SG: No. That's a terrific reading. I had, you know…

Queen of Disks
Key Words: the watery aspect of earth; fruitfulness; physical nourishment; overcoming the barren past.
Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

GA: Well, the queen of disks is a very special lady.
SG: You see it as the lesbian card?
GA: I see it's one of the lesbian cards.
SG: One of the lesbian cards.
GA: In this deck, it's the lesbian card
SG: How about that?
GA: and in your deck it's the queen of pentacles.

SG: It's interesting that you talk about it being Aries, because both Jane and I are Aries. Sounds nice. I have a moon in Aries [unintelligible]
GA: The best time for you to beautify your surroundings or look at your past and maybe do something about your health is during the time of Aries.
SG: That's when I did it.
GA: Ah, Okay.
SG: [laughs] I did change on April 9th, this past year. It's really significant that you should say that.
GA: Yes. Well, you're ready to push in the new direction because of the ram.
SG: On health, and on--
GA: On health, on the relationship, on making your home more pleasing aesthetically. Whatever your environment is, maybe your office. That's Aries for you.
SG: Good.
GA: Moving forward.
SG: Good!

GA: This card represents Jane to you, or how you see Jane.
SG: [laughs].
GA: This is the card of the hierophant, and it's the card of teaching and learning. Especially around occult mysteries. Do you know what her birthday is by any chance?
SG: Yes. April 14th.
GA: Okay. January. February. March. April 14 of what year?
SG: 1941.
GA: Ooh, she's a lovers too, like you.
SG: Is she?
GA: I was wondering. I was trying to see may-- Because some people in their numerology. For example, I'm a double lover, but in my numerology, I have two double sevens and a double nine, the hermit and chariot. Sometimes people are in a growth year that is erected to this card. The number five, or that five years ago, something happened between the two of you.
SG: It was our-- Yes, exactly [laughs]. That's wonderful. That's very fun. Very fun.
GA: What I want to do is, I want to figure out what her growth year is. It's amazing. Two lovers living together, double lovers. It works, huh?
SG: Actually, we don't live together.
GA: Well, being lovers. I wonder if it would work if you lived together.
SG: I wonder too. We wonder together.

Hierophant
"Key Words: Taurus; spiritual master, teacher, advisor, initiate, inner guide, spiritual father; highest transformation."
Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

Title: Psychology/Metaphysics/Health | Box: 166

GA: No, her growth year is 10. The wheel of fortune. She's going through the wheel of fortune. Anyway, the hierophant is-- The person represented by the hierophant is very much concerned with family. She has a lot to do with a male person in her life. Could be her father. When she resolves certain things with that male person or that authority figure, she will own up to her leadership.
SG: Would you say that again, louder, I want to play this tape for Jane right now?
[laughter]
GA: No. I can't.
SG: No, no, no. I'm teasing about that, but that's important, Gloria. That's good.
GA: That's important. I think it's picking up pretty good.
SG: Good.

GA: A child or children also are very important in her life. When she interacts with a child, she will come to terms with her innate child as her spontaneity or childlike nature. There will be a child, either a neighbor's, or maybe she'll be in the bus and she'll see a child in the bus or in the park, maybe a niece, or somebody. There'll be a child that will trigger that in her, of owning her childlike innocence and playfulness.
The child will represent Horace, like the father represented Osiris. Isis in this picture is a contemporary woman. The man was older, the child was younger. Isis is a contemporary woman and someone that's close to her age. This woman will open up vistas in the occult, in maybe tarot or the i ching, or maybe a reading that she had. Some psychic thing will be mirrored to her by a contemporary woman who's into the occult, or into the mysteries, or spirituality. When she recognizes that woman, then it's like recognizing her potential to get into the occult and her inner spirituality. Basically, this is the part of the family of Osiris, Isis, and Horace the baby. Isis is down here, holding a sword between her thighs. Isis is represented by the hierophant and Horace is the five-pointed star.
SG: Got you.

GA: Five years ago, something unique happened in your relationship. The hierophant is ruled by Taurus, so there might be a lot of victim. What's funny?
SG: Well, that's actually when we met. Was five years ago on May 1st, which is Taurus. Right?
GA: Yes.
SG: Not when we met, but when we--
GA: When you--?
SG: When we first really got together in any kind of a sexual way.
GA: Ah, okay, well then, that's the high-energy time for you. That's usually the best time for learning, teaching situations. The learning teaching situations don't have to be just about the occult. They can be sexual or personal or emotional or intellectual, but this is the energy of bringing to you those things that teach. You usually teach what you want to learn. There are four other times during the year when this potential comes through the most. This is during Scorpio the eagle, Aquarius the man, Taurus the bull, and Leo the lion. Those are the four times that are very-- what is the word? Propitious.
SG: Propitious.
GA: Propitious.
SG: Good.

GA: This bull here and this bull here mean the ability to manifest, to bring to earth, to complete whatever activities that she starts because this represents her, or that's how you see her. Because Taurus is really-- it's not just planning, and it's not just dreaming and thinking about things. It's really doing, really carrying it through. It's earthing it. There's three Earths, Virgo, Taurus, and Capricorn, and of those three, the Taurus is the sign that really does manifest things.
SG: It's fixed.
GA: Fixed. So that she's got that potential. The elephant. See the elephant over here? The elephant--
SG: hah. Two of them. Is it two? Yes.
GA: Yes. They had to do with hearing. With a sense of hearing. A symbol for that and also for long memories. These snails here. One, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine, means that she's been pierced by five. How many did I say?
SG: Nine.
GA: By nine situation, people, events, whatever, that have been very instrumental in transformations for her and breakthroughs. The snake represents regeneration and rebirth. These memories of our experiences or lessons, whatever they are, she has the ability to go through them and be transformed. The symbol of the snake. The dove is the symbol of wisdom, peace. Wisdom if the little bird is carrying an olive twig. I don't think there's an olive twig here, so this is just peace and love. This thing in the background. One, two, three, four, five, it just represents all of the perceptions, mental, emotional, spiritual. And the key?
SG: mmhmm
GA: represents the key to knowledge, to the wisdom that you, through a teaching learning situation you can acquire. Then also bringing to earth, the two fingers. The orange color is the second chakra color, which is healing. It's the color of healing. Healing and renewal. There's also some red, which is a lot of energy, fashion. Isis is holding a bow in her hand, and it's the crescent moon. That's symbolizes the unconscious, the subconscious. Do you have any questions about this?

SG: It's very rich.
GA: Yes, a lot of symbols.
SG: I had thought of the Hierophant as being a very disciplined, ordered card, at least from the Waite deck. That's what is represented in the social orders, social hierarchies. This reading is very different. That's good.
GA: I can't think of anything else to add.
SG: Good. Good, Gloria.
GA: Usually I will after you leave. I usually call my people up and say, oh I just--
SG: Thought of something about this!

GA: [laughs] This is your karmic link.
SG: With Jane. Together?
GA: Yeah. This is the pregnant lady in the deck. She is the princess of disks. She has gone, walked up the top of the mountain, gone through the briar patch. All those are obstacles that she has left behind, so that in your relationship, with obstacles, unresolved karma, whatever it was that you had to do together, you have done pretty much. You're in the clear. You're out of the woods, so to speak. The briars, the branches, those represent obstacles that you've gone through. That the both of you have gone through. Again, the Aries, moving forward, the Aries horns, the ram horns, moving forward with awareness.
There's a snake, and she's carrying it on her shoulders, and it looks like a cloak and it's asleep. She's near getting ready to do this transformation, to give birth to a new identity. Because this represents your karmic link, both of you are getting ready to-- I guess to exhibit new parts of your personality that working through these things has freed. That you can now be more yourself, that you can be a new part of yourself that you hadn't been able to be with her, because you've worked through all these things.
The long braids go all the way to the ground, which again, like the staff with the diamond at the end, represent bringing to earth, achieving, completing, manifesting. The braids are sort of tight on top and then more loose on the bottom. It's sort of like a symbol for the tightness of the structure of, I guess the relationship with the karmic link. You know like, I'm loosening it up a little, and the braids are coming undone.
The other symbol for earthing is the pedestal, because she's touching the pedestal with her body, and it goes all the way to the ground, and that is a symbol like the staff. Anything that goes from above to below means bringing down energy, manifesting, earthing. She's holding a yin-yang symbol in her disk, in her hand. The yin-yang symbol is vertical, so it means interchange. When it's horizontal, it means change in the environment. Vertical means inner."
SG: Inside ourselves or inside the relationship?
GA: Inside the karmic link between the two of you. I guess it's inside both of you, since both of you make the link. Disks is the symbol for the wheel of fortune also, for you've got things in control. You've got a handle on it. This represents, again, the disks, health, external environment, and money, abundance. It's the earth symbol. She's a very unusual lady, because look at her eyes. She's sort of like three-dimensional. I don't know.
SG: The eyes remind me of the queen in Snow White. She reminds me of the wicked stepmother, actually. What's the background Gloria?
GA: Would you like some--?
SG: Yes, I would love. What's the background? Is it mountains?
GA: Yes, she's walked through the mountains. It's been a long, hard struggle, a journey. She's gone through the dark forest.
SG: Is that still a cloak? Is all that still the cloak that she's got there?
GA: That's part of the snake.
SG: Is that still a snake?
GA: That means that the regenerative powers are very great, transformative powers. Either it means that you're going to give birth to a project that's financially rewarding, or you're going to give birth to a new identity. Since the question is about the karmic link, it seems to me that the new identity applies, but I'm not sure.
SG: That's good. For sure it's not financial. [laughs] I don't see that at all. It must be the other.
GA: Yes. She looks a little tired. It's been a long haul.
SG: Mm-hmm. That's good.

GA: Okay. Do you have any questions about these three?
SG: The third one is the karmic link. The second one, the Hierophant, is how I see her, my perception of her. That is love.
GA: The interaction between the two.
SG: The interaction. Okay.
GA: Mostly yours, yes.
SG: Is there any connection between these two, the interaction and the karmic link?
GA: Yes, and I'll tie it up when I get there. Hi, Randy. You want to come in? Randy: [unintelligible]
GA: Okay. Thanks. Randy: [unintelligible]
GA: Okay, before you leave, will you call the owl and the monkey? Thanks. Okay, the next thing I want to take up is your creativity and your career.

Title: Randy Conner and David Sparks, undated | Location: Box: 148 | Folder: 14

SG: You give a good, long reading. Am I taking too long?
GA: No, this is the usual. These three cards I use to tie in. This is the nine of disks and its game. It's ruled by-- It's a card of Libra, I'm Libra. Venus and Virgo, which is my card because my Venus is in Virgo. Okay, the woman that made the cards was named Frieda Harris. She had a very unusual relationship with Crowley in that they weren't lovers or anything, but they had a very close bond. Crowley was lovers with Ricardie at that time. Ricardie was very, very jealous. Very, very jealous of Crowley's relationship with Frieda Harris. Frieda Harris realized it was a karmic thing she had going with Crowley. She had no power in the relationship. The only thing she could do was represent it in the cards, so she did this. There's a card-- a coin to represent each of the three. She had, one of her pet names for Crowley was the king. One of his pet names for her was the queen, or the princess or something like that. Anyway, she put Ricardie and Crowley up here showing that their relationship had prominence. It was more important. That her thing was synthesizing the information she was getting from Crowley and putting it into the cards. Her thing was resolving all these past life karma and stuff. She really knew that hers was not the most important relationship. It was very difficult for her. Very very difficult for her. She had suffered great pain. This card she named Gain, because she had gained from this experience. It's a very-- If you look at it carefully, there's a picture of a bullseye and hitting the mark and she did that, and that's how she saw her relationship with Crowley despite all of the things. What this card represents is your receptivity, the feminine nature of, aspect of your nature, how you receive information, is very much on the mark, very much. You're very much able to do it. If you center yourself and concentrate on it, you can get there. You can make a bullseye or whatever it's called. To do this, you need to take into account your love nature, the Venus aspect that the way you relate to people and the way you-- Como se dice? You cannot divorce your personal--

[Tape Stops]

[End of Recording]

Song in foreign language plays [Intermittent sounds of pages turning; door opens]

SG: I wish I spoke Spanish so that you could, lapse into Spanish because I know you [unintelligible].
GA: [laughs] Yes, you have to remind me. Okay. Your receptivity has the capability of-- what am I…?--of being concrete, of you actually getting work from it, of it becoming concrete. For example, it becoming a book and because it's a discard, of really manifesting it, birthing it. What you might need to do is, just maybe center yourself more and clear your mind, and get a little more into a meditative state when you do this work. Because what happens is that, people get a lot of their energy from the upper chakras, cosmic energy, and they don't get enough of the earth energy. Consequently, they're up here in their head, or in the astral up here, and not enough in the body. Because this is a position of your creativity and your receptivity in this earth, it tells me that you might not be getting enough, either you're getting too much or not enough energy from the earth, that you might need to sit on the grass five minutes every day and get energy from the earth, because we're surrounded by concrete. Yes, you might want to go to the park once in a while and lean on the tree and get energy from the earth.
SG: Good

GA: The time to do it that's most, what was that word again? Pro-
SG: Propitious.
GA: That's most propitious is eight weeks from now or eight months from now, which would put you into…I didn't bring my calendar.
SG: December. It's January.
GA: Or in the month of Virgo. The other thing is that a person with Venus in Virgo or with Venus in Virgo prominent in their chart, or Virgo prominent in their chart, might have a lot to do with-- affect your receptivity and your creativity. You might want to look at your cards.
SG: I have an ascendant. Virgo's ascendant. It's rising.
GA: Ah, okay. Well that might represent you. The three things here are, again, there's three here, three here, and three here, so there's nine. Very balanced. So you have nothing to do but gain from getting into receptive modes and becoming a channel for your creativity.
SG: And the source of that is more often the earth than the head?
GA: In your case, yes. If you had pulled a wand here, that's more like spiritual cosmic energy. If you had pulled a cup, it would be more emotional energy. If you had pulled a sword, that would be more of the idea and the intellectual. Because you pulled an earth, that has more to do with concrete reality, manifesting an earth energy.
SG: Good. Good, good.

GA: Instead of air, fire, and water. Okay. Your right side, your decision-making aspect of your nature is represented here by the Nine Wands, which is strength. The wands represent intuition, spirituality, inspiration, fire. Fire is usually a symbol for purification. As your feminine creativity is represented by earth, your masculine is represented by fire. Again, it's a nine. Perfectly balanced.
SG: Really?
GA: Yes. Both of these cards have the hermit as their--
SG: Parallel. Yeah?
GA: Yes.
SG: Yeah.
GA: The time that's per–[laughs]
SG: Propitious.
GA: Propitious. [laughing]
SG: It's a wonderful word. I love it that you love it.
GA: It's again nine weeks from now or nine months from now. Usually, when it's a negative card, I'll say, okay, look back nine weeks, or nine months ago. In this case, we'll look forward.
SG: Good.

Nine of Wands "Key Words: Sun in Sagittarius; power gained through unifying conscious and unconscious energies; wholeness." Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

GA: What's interesting about this card is it has both the sun, which is consciousness and awareness, and the male, in some cases, and, according to this patriarchal stuff we learned. The moon is feminine receptivity, the lunar, the night, and subconscious creativity. They're both joined by the same wand, by the same rod. This means that it's perfectly balanced in you right now. When you make your decisions and when you delegate, pass through other people, do it from a place of strength and of centeredness. Every time you think, well, you're going to be swayed off your feet by the demands of someone, think of this card and meditate on this card. It's the sun in Sag, in Sagittarius. That means that you have to be very direct in communicating your orders, your messages. Your communication has to be very direct upfront. Sag is like aiming straight for it. So is the previous card, the Nine of Disks game. They both deal with hitting the mark and aiming directly. It's really amazing that the two sides of nature are balanced.
SG: Really? Does that say they are balanced, or that I must work on balancing, or both?
GA: I think that they are balanced but you have to maintain this balance. You have to maintain it because what you are right now doesn't mean you are tomorrow. Maybe when you meditated it cleared up a lot of stuff for you because you don't seem to have very many problems. There's flames in the background. It would symbolize inspiration, intuition. Then all the little shafts.
SG: Are they shafts or are they--
GA: They're little shafts in the arrow.
SG: Yes, right.
GA: And they're moons. The points are also moons. It just means you're a very strong lady. That strength is your mainstay. That nine months, nine weeks from now, or nine months from now, either one of those, that you might be challenged. A situation will come up to test you to see whether you're going to use strength or not. Just like over here. If you're going to be centered enough. These little tests come periodically. This is to check up on you and see if you're on your path. It could be a person, a Sagittarian person. If it doesn't happen nine weeks from now or nine months from now, it might happen during the time of Sagittarius. Usually, those times will, you'll remember them. You'll remember those events because they leave-- All these dates that I'm giving you, they're going to be there. I've not ever heard of one that hasn't been. [laughs]
SG: Really? Good.

Nine of Disks "Key Words: Venus in Virgo; growth, gain; bonded by love, wisdom, creativity; the more I give the more I receive." Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

GA: Okay, now we come to your process. This represents your inner process. The inner process is the three of--
SG: Trumps.
GA: The Empress. It's a trump card. Your outer environment, your outer process, the outer world is represented by the twelfth, the hanged man. Another trump. Okay, so let's take your inner. Again, they're balanced because two and one makes three.
SG: [chuckles]
GA: If you draw a card like the tower, and then you draw the chariot, they're complements of each other. Because six and one makes seven. There are cycles in the tarot, numerologically, in astrology, astrologically, there are definite cycles, and this is one cycle. Okay, what you don't deal with in your Empress energy or year comes up in your hanged man year. Everybody goes through a growth year every year. Jane is going through the 10–What was it that I told you, the Wheel of Fortune?
SG: mmhmm
GA: The growth year that you're going through with-- Okay. Okay, you're going through a two-year, the High Priestess, which is another lesbian card.
SG: mmhmm
GA: In your growth year, what you're trying to do is you're trying to balance your independence. People are making demands on you, and they're not giving you your space. The tendency during that year is to either walk out, withdraw, leave. It's either withdraw or leave. A lot of times you probably are gonna feel like doing that. Yes. Also, it's a year where you get in touch with your intuition and your receptivity.
SG: When is that? This, this—
GA: This growth year that you started in, at the time of your birthday, it's going to go from--
SG: The 15th, how about that?

The Priestess "Key Words: Moon; access to intuitive powers, healing, independence, inner equilibrium, increased self-confidence." The Empress "Key Words: Venus; beauty; love; motherliness; femininity; wisdom; connection between spirit and matter; inner and outer wealth." Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

GA: From your birthday to your birthday, you're in a really good space because it's the High Priestess. The karma for that year, the two karma, which is my karma, is being attentive to detail, being of service to others, being organized, efficient, and all the things I'm not. [laughs] It's my karma.
SG: You're kidding.
GA: That's the year you're going to have to get on top of that. How much time can you allow? Okay, and here's where the Empress comes in. The Empress is the card, the energy that says, okay, how much am I going to put out? How much am I going to take in? It's the card of giving and receiving. If you overextend, you get in this position, the hangman. If you underextend, the same thing happens. The thing to look for is your love nature. When you give, are you giving out of the goodness of your heart and out of altruistic feelings? Or are you giving like a bargaining, like a merchandising? I'll give you this much if you give me this much. I will love you this much if you love me this much. This is to watch it. You don't make love to a bargain or merchandise. The Empress is the card of symbolizing the fertility of nature. He comes into you. She's sort of like Venus, Aphrodite, that image, love, but also harmony and balance. Let me see. Nurturing. A lot of nurturing. See the little birds down there?
SG: Yes.
GA: Do you think that's a pelican?
SG: I'm not sure, it could be I think. It doesn't have a lot of--
GA: The symbol for the pelican was the mother cutting open her breast to feed her little bird's blood. It was like this nurturing, almost like. You've got to be careful when you get into nurturing.
SG: That's very good advice. Very good.
GA: A lot of green. The green is like fertility, creativity. There are a lot of magnetic lines. Magnetic lines are curved, feminine. Vertical lines are more aggressive, more masculine, dynamic. My teacher Angie Arrien doesn't like to use feminine and masculine, so she uses dynamic and magnetic. It's the same truth.
SG: Dynamic is the masculine thing? isn't that interesting.
GA: Just a lot of curved lines. Look at the way she holds her arms.

Randy: whispering
GA: Okay, thanks. Randy: unintelligible
GA: See you later. Randy: How are you liking it?
SG: hmm? Randy: is it good?
SG: Oh, it's terrific. Very fun!
GA: You going to the fairies? Randy: I think so [laughs]
SG: See you, Randy, yes. Randy: unintelligbile
GA: David is busy tonight. They never spend any time--

Title: R. Conner tarot cards | Location: Box: 5 | Folder: 12

SG: I'm eating all your sunflower seeds. I hope that's all right.
GA: Oh, I've got plenty more. The business about the Empress is pretty much like the traditional--
SG: What you've said is very good. What you've said is very good. The business about organizing is particularly good.
GA: The number two karma?
SG: Yes, right, all that. Yes.
GA: There's like moon, the crescent moon, symbolizing the feminine.
SG: And the business of watching my sacrificial energy.
GA: Yes.
SG: Good.
GA: Yes, because you'll end up over here like a sacrifice.
SG: This is the sacrifice, right?

GA: Yes. This is the hanged man. Okay, my interpretation of the hanged man is not really the traditional kind. The traditional kind is being fixed and tied and all that to a certain position, which is, in my interpretation, that can happen. But if you look at the card, the man is upside down. There's a snake here. See the eye? It looks like asleep. Unmoving. The man has no hair, and the eyes seem closed. Okay, when a baby doesn't understand something, a lot of times he'll get on his hands and knees and look between his legs. This is what you have to do. You have to turn your perspective upside down.
SG: [chuckles] Wonderful.

The Hanged Man "Key Words: congealed; end of a situation or relationship which is stuck; letting go, giving up, surrendering; learning to see in a new way; the necessity of breaking through old behavior patterns." Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

GA: Okay, now the man looks like he's got a little hair and his eyes-- The snake seems to have its eye open. In your environment with the people in your office and people you relate with, what you have to do is you have to turn the situation around. You have to look at it with new eyes, from a new perspective. Instead of thinking, "Okay, I'm fixed, I'm tied." I see that you have the potential to awaken the snake, regenerate, transform it. In order to do that, you have to give up your old point of view, and that's the sacrifice. You have to give up your stance and the way you perceive things, and just totally let go of that perception. Turn your head around and look from a different view, and see if you can solve the problem by that. That's basically--
SG: Is this ocean up here? What is this up here?
GA: That's the symbol for wisdom.
SG: The blue?
GA: Yes.
SG: huh…
GA: The blue in most color symbology represents wisdom, serenity. That there's that in you, that potentiality. Then all these little grid things--
SG: What is that? Yeah…
GA: It means that-- This kind of grid is like foundations for buildings for making things. Sometimes before they put--
SG: Concrete.
GA: Yes. Okay, so this just means that it's up to you as to what you fill in, what you create, that the thing to hang you up is your perception.
SG: That's the perception here. Okay.

GA: If you think of something that happened to you in the past, you can't change the past, but you can change your perception of it. This is what that card is about. You've got to give up your stance and your worldview right now, whatever it is. It's a sacrifice. Say you have two potentialities. One, to write a book on spirituality, and the other one to be a very good school administrator or whatever. Okay. In order to do-- You're this tree and you have these two branches. In order for one to flower and blossom, you're going to have to cut back the other. It doesn't mean you're going to kill the tree. It just means you're going to prune. This is the card. What are you going to sacrifice? What branch are you going to? You need to look at your life. This is going to be demanded of you in about 12 weeks. You have between now and 12 weeks.
SG: You're just about right. That would be about the middle of August?
GA: mmhmm
SG: That's when school starts.
GA: mmhmm. You have to give up something.
SG: sighs
GA: I think that the answer might lie in how much you're willing to nurture and give, and how much you're willing to receive. Do you want that to be balanced? If you are going to give to these people, are you going to resent it?
SG: Good.

GA: Okay. Do you have any questions about either one?
SG: No, you're very accurate. It's meaningful.
GA: Do you want some more tea?
SG: I don't think so. I'm in good shape.
GA: Okay
SG: That's rich.

GA: Question 7. I think I'll do these 2 and then the 7.
SG: Okay
GA: This is your test card, your lesson. It's the Ten of Swords Ruin. In 10 weeks, you need to get rid of this pattern. So what you do-- Let me tell you about the pattern first. This is the Sun in Gemini. In Gemini's communication in the twins which is very close to the lovers, being pulled in opposite directions. Sun is just awareness. Here you have all these swords. There's 9. I've never been able to find the 10th sword in here. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9. The swords represent thoughts. Your thoughts are piercing your heart. They're wounding your heart. See the little heart there? With thoughts of ruin, of self-ruin. That has to do with communicating something. Consciously dealing with something. It has to do with the Sun in Gemini. It means that 10 years ago or 10 weeks ago, you were wounded. Probably by somebody else, but you took it up and you beat yourself with it. Situations come up where you think, "Oh, it's no use. It's futile. It doesn't do any good." You do this thought number on yourself. If you just will recognize it, that it is just your thoughts. That it is one aspect of yourself and not all of yourself. The hourglass, there's hourglasses here. There's sigils, S-I-G-I-L. They're upside down. Over here is the scales on top. Those are symbols that are pretty much self-explanatory. The hourglass has to do with time. Time running out. You putting a thing on yourself because you didn't do this in time or you didn't do that in time. The scales are like justice and balance and money. It also has to do with money. It's a very simple card. It just means thoughts of self-ruin.

Ten of Swords "Key Words: Sun and Moon in Gemini; fear of insanity; broken heart; fear of the destructive energy of accumulated anger; negative thinking." Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

SG: Could it be guilt? Is there any guilt in that card? I'm having a hard time applying it. Everything else is fitting really very nicely. Could that be an unexpected turn?
GA: I think that the test for you is going to have to be it's sort of like, I don't think it's guilt. It's guilt. The guilt that's in it has to do with that you're feeling bad for doing this trip on yourself and then you feel guilty that you should know better than to have these thoughts and entertain these thoughts. The way I see it is just a lot of these thoughts clashing which are symbolized by the broken sword hands and contradictory which is Gemini. The sign of Gemini can be very contradictory. Just like contradictory clashing thoughts in your head and that you might think that you should be able to ward them off or handle them. Sometimes they just get to be too much. It's not a card that I know a whole lot about because it doesn't come up that often. The only thing I can go by are--
SG: It's a warning I think.
GA: yeah
SG: I think it's a warning.

GA: That your breakthrough will come from you letting these thoughts come and not giving them too much energy. It's like when you meditate and you're concentrating on your breath or your mantra, these thoughts come but you don't beat yourself over the head because you can't concentrate or you can't meditate. You just let them come and flow out. Don't give them any mind. Don't give them any energy. That is going to be the test.
SG: Ah I think I--okay…
GA: Does that make sense to you? Because if you get on the other side then it's rebirth and transformation. The rebirth and transformation that were realized by the Princess of Disks and the Queen of Disks. That when you come through this pattern, when you let go of this pattern then the rest will follow through. Because it's your lesson card. A lot of times it's a card to show if you're off your path. The negative cards, there's a cycle to them. They begin with the Three of Swords. Sorrow. Very early in life, we experience grief because of temper tantrums because we can't get things the way we want them. Usually when we're around three years old. You're not getting the attention. You're not getting this. You're not getting that. I'm going to answer that because I think it's--
SG: okay good.

Three of Swords "Key Words: Saturn in Libra; worries, doubts, lack of clarity, heaviness, depression, tension in three-sided relationships." Ziegler, Gerd. Tarot: Mirror of the Soul : A Handbook for the Thoth Tarot, Red Wheel/Weiser, 2023.

[recording stops and restarts immediately]
GA: Okay, so your breakthrough will come through dealing with the fear of ruin. It's actually fear of ruin.
SG: Did you turn that on?
GA: Let's see.
SG: okay okay
GA: It's actually fear of ruin rather than ruin itself. In this case, it has to do with your creativity. I think it has to do with, I don't think it has to do with Jane because all the cards were pretty good and they were all high cards. It might have to do with your work aspect. Whether you can balance this life between work and creativity and that you feel the fear about maybe you're not doing that, not balancing because there's a Libra of scales. It's this fear.
SG: That's good. That helps.
GA: Anyway to get back to the sword, the three of sorrows is the first card in the negative cycle. There's a progression and they go from swords, cups, wands, and then disks. Most traditional Tarotists, people that read Tarot, they don't have that progression. To me it's the creation, the idea is first thought out. Then it's felt, your emotions get engaged and then you start working on your intuition and the wants and then you bring it to Earth with the disks and that's the progression that I use. First in the head then in the emotion.
SG: Then, the intuition?
GA: Intuition and then-
SG: Ground?
GA: -you manifest it in reality and so this is yet very early. You could nip it in the bud, you know? It's when you get a negative disc that you've gone through all of these repeated--
SG: Yeah, yeah.
GA: You've gone through strife and disappointment, the five of cups and you're going through defeat. The five of swords and you're going, all of these, and there's only 13 negative cards in this deck and you only got one out of 2, 4, 6, 8, out of 10, so that's pretty good.
SG: I'll say.

Tape ends

GA: I will call you if I can think of anything more.
SG: Don't worry about that, Gloria. I think that's up to me to think about. You know?
[pause]
GA: The light, this yellow light, is like clarity trying to break through just--

[End of Recording]